PTO Lever Does Not Engage

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PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby kirkcudbright » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:31 pm

I just got a 1950 cub a few weeks ago, and I am still figuring things out.

When I attempt to engage the PTO, I do the following:

Take it out of gear
Push in the clutch
Push down and draw back the PTO lever
Release the clutch

This is what I get instead:

Take it out of gear
Push in the clutch
PTO lever pushes down, but only goes back about 3/4 of the way
Release the clutch, and kill the engine

It feels like the lever is stopping just short of engaging whatever it engages.

I would normally assume something is damaged. But, I am relatively certain the seller (who I think was an honest guy) had me engage it to show how it worked.

Have I forgotten a step? ...or will this be my first adjustment or repair experience?

If this is going to be my first repair, does anyone have advice on what to check?

Thanks
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby cub47 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:05 pm

There can be a couple of things in play here causing the issue.

Just to confirm, you said that you did see the PTO engage properly before?

You said the engine is stalling out? Do you have a mower attached to the PTO?

Your zip code shows you located in STL? I'm not to far from you, would be more than happy to swing by some time and give you hand getting it repaired or adjusted. I get over that way quite a bit. Just let me know.
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby ricky racer » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:16 pm

Can't ask for more help than that. Brian knows Cubs inside and out.
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby wfmdfm » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:16 am

Does the PTO shaft turn by hand? Could be a bearing is froze up.
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:55 am

Something I have found that works for mine sometimes:
While holding some back pressure on the PTO lever, try just ever so slightly letting out on the clutch until the splines line up and the lever clicks back into place. Then IMMEDIATELY push back down on the clutch pedal. Works for me, and if you allow the drive shaft to ONLY slightly rotate for the splines to line up, you will not have any grinding.
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby kirkcudbright » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:51 am

Cubguy47 (Brian?)...
Thanks for the offer. I will try tinkering with it first, but I may ask for some help.

Did I see it engage before?...
I am almost positive the seller had me use to PTO once just to make sure I would know how to later. I think it just turned the mower pulley with no belt attached (no load).

Is the mower attached?...
Yes. I haven't tried removing the belt yet. But everything seems to turn when I pull it by hand.

Wally...
Does the PTO shaft turn by hand?...
Yes

Dale...
It will sure be nice if your trick works. I will try to get out and try that today.

Thanks all!
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby cub47 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:56 am

Doyle, just let me know, I am over your way about two times a week and would have no problem taking a look at the problem if you end up needing help. I am always willing to assist other members with their cub issues. 8)

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UPDATE: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby kirkcudbright » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:04 pm

I tried the trick Dale mentioned, but it didn't work for me. I suspect Dale has a better feel for his clutch.

Immediately after, I tried cussing, stomping me feet, and flailing my arms around. That seemed to do the trick. When I went back to it, the PTO lever shifted perfectly, and I mowed about a half-acre of tall and wet grass. Then, it slipped and started grinding. I disengaged and found myself back at square one.

Everything seems to work perfectly - when it works. The PTO lever simply does not go all the way into position.

Apparently, the cussing, stomping, and arm flailing only works once.

Ideas?
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby cub47 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:06 pm

So it sounds like the lever is not fully seating in the bracket holes at the end of the groove shown below? Does your bracket look like this?

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/245fp.htm
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Re: UPDATE: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby cub47 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:12 pm

kirkcudbright wrote:When I went back to it, the PTO lever shifted perfectly, and I mowed about a half-acre of tall and wet grass. Then, it slipped and started grinding. I disengaged and found myself back at square one.



And if this is occurring, I fear you may have some internal issues going on with the shifter lever and shaft, and clutch on the PTO. Wear on the pin located on the end of the lever is very common and can cause the results you described.
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby kirkcudbright » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:14 pm

cubguy47 wrote:So it sounds like the lever is not fully seating in the bracket holes at the end of the groove shown below? Does your bracket look like this?

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/245fp.htm


Yes. I looks like that. It will not go far enough back to pop back up in the back hole.
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby kirkcudbright » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:24 pm

cubguy47 wrote:So it sounds like the lever is not fully seating in the bracket holes at the end of the groove shown below? Does your bracket look like this?

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/245fp.htm


On second thought, it is not identical. The hole where it pops out when engaged seems to be elongated a little - not a perfect circle - more like an oval with flat sides. When the PTO was engaged, the lever did not go all the way back. Instead it went just barely into that elongated hole. See attachment.
Attachments
pto.jpg
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby cub47 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:50 pm

Ok, couple other things I am curious about:

1. loosen the tension on the mower drive belt via the mower mule drive below the tractor PTO pulley near the ground
2. grab the mower PTO pulley, and see if you have any side to side play in the shaft
3. with the tractor NOT running, try to engage the PTO lever (no need to use the clutch), you may have to rotate the PTO pulley slightly to get this to work, if at all (is the lever still towards the front of the elongated slot?)
4. if you remove the square head fill plug on the top of your transmission housing (see photo from TM Tractor below), you can look thru this threaded hole with a flashlight and see how things work together inside while moving the PTO lever

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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby Rick Spivey » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:29 pm

Kirk,

IF your guide is all that is worn, then you are probably not engaging the PTO fully enough (or it won't stay in the fully engaged position). That will result in internal wear of the spline ends, because these PTO clutches have minimal engagement when in ideal condition. However, like CubGuy alluded to, I suspect you already also have internal wear. If the ends of the splines on the main shaft, OR the PTO shaft, show any real wear, that is enough to cause marginal function, or real malfunction. One or both shafts will have to be replaced. Also, the shaft MAY be fine, but the clutch splines can be worn, which will cause the same problem, but is less expensive to replace.

If you are going to use this PTO (especially for mowing, etc.), bite the bullet and fix it correctly now, before spring. You will be miles down the road. Once you gat an appreciation of how "feeble" (in my opinion) this system was designed, you will take great care in shifting the PTO into and out of engagement.
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Re: PTO Lever Does Not Engage

Postby challenger » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm

I do not know your previous experience with PTO attached implements, but you must slowly ease out on the clutch until you build up rpm in the attached implement. If you release the clutch too fast, you can kill the engine.
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