Trying to save a Super C

I have my fathers Farmall Super C which has been in the woods/mud for the last 20 years and I want to save it.

I have moved it out of the mud to a better spot for the winter, still outside hoping to get it inside in the spring to start work on it.

So far I have two questions.

1) While I was towing it out of the mud it was in neutral but the tire on the right rear side was not rolling at all. The other one was and so was the two front ones.
I'm thinking the brake might be rusted/frozen up. Does that sound like a good place to start or could it be something else?

2) I pulled the spark plugs and but some marval mystery oil down each cylinder. But while I was looking things over I opened up the oil overfill/ oil level check on the left side of the motor and nothing came out. If there is no oil in it I would like to put some in for the winter. Any recommandations on the type of oil to have sit in there over winter?

Also does any know of where I can get a service manual for this tractor?

Eric:

Congrats :applause: on trying to save your Dad's Super C. Nice to be able to keep it in the family and running good. I happen to have these manuals on the manual Server:

Super A - Super AV Owner's Manual

Super A Special Attachments

TC-39B Parts Catalog

Click to expand...

and these ones that include the Super C

GSS-5035 Service Manual Magnetos
GSS-1024 Touch Control

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I do not have the Service Manuals for if but Binder Books does

Farmall Super C Built from 1951-1954 - Serial numbers 10001-198310 with the C-123 engine. List Price

1004315 Farmall Super C Tractor Operators manual, 98 pages $21.95
TC-44B Farmall Super C Tractor Parts Catalog. 234 pages $34.95
GSS-SCSet Service Manual Set (includes Chassis GSS-5031,, Engine GSS-1295J and Touch Control, GSS-1024 Service manuals). $57.95
GSS-1295J Engine & Fuel System Service Manual for C-123, C-135, C-146 and C-153 Engines, 106 pgs. C-123 engine $24.95
GSS-1024 Touch Control Serviceman's Handbook for Farmall Cub, Super A & AV, C and Super C Tractors, 32 pgs, 1/2 size $16.95
GSS-5053 Clutch Service for McCormick Deering 15-30, 22-36, Model 20, Model 30, Farmall Regular, F-20, F-12, O-12, W-12, F-14, I-14, O-14, W-14; Farmall A, AV, B, BN, C, H, HV, I-4, W-4, M, MV, MDV, W-6, WD-6, I-6, ID-6, W-9, I-9, ID_9; Also Crawler Models T-20, T-35, TD-35, T-40, TA-40, TD-40, T-6, TD-6, T-9, TD-9, T-14, TD-14, TD-18 and Power Units U-2, IU-4, U-4, U-6, UD-6, U-7, U-9, UD-9, U-10, U-014, UD-14, UD-18, U-21. Originally printed as CHS-62; 76 pgs. $21.95
CHS-12 Clutch Adjustment for Farmall Super A, Super C and Farmall H & M Tractors, 8 pages $ 8.95
GSS-5035 Magneto service for IH Models F-4, F-6, E4A, H-4, H-1, AP, H and AH, EK Wico Magnetos and Dixie and Aero Splitdorf Magnetos; (originally published as CHS-27); 80 pgs. $21.95
FCI-1A Parts Catalog, for Implements for use the Farmall C & Super C Tractors, 930 pages $83.95
FCI-2 Parts Catalog for Implements used with Farmall Super C Tractors, equipped with Fast Hitch, 116 pgs. $24.95

Click to expand...

to Farmallcub.com :big smile: Forum Family. And you have come to the right place for all things Cub related. If you click on the Site Rules, Regulations, & Important Information, it will point you to :arrow: the Welcome Wagon wherein you will find links to many useful sites and topics. One of which is the Cub Manual Server. Enjoy!.

Click to expand...

Eric, I'd say you are on the right track with breaks being locked if the other side is rolling. How dos the pedal feel? As far as oil is concerned, since it has sat this long without oil I would not worry about adding any until you are ready to crank it over. Having oil in it now will not be lubricating any thing. It will just go to the bottom and sit there. If you do add oil you will be okay using whatever you run in your car/truck in the winter.

Loosen the engine oil drain plug slightly and see what comes out. PM me your postal address and we'll see if we can't get you a manual or two.

Thank you all for the replies and the good info.
I'm looking forward to getting back out there this week to do what I can
before the snow hits.
I will keep things updated as I go along.

Since the Super C has the oil fill through the valve cover, putting some oil in there might be useful to lubricate the top end. It is not necessary to bring the oil level up to full, because it will just be sitting in the pan. Only what manages to stick to the valve train when you dump it in will be useful.

I almost think some Marvel Mystery Oil would be the way to go. It might even behoove you to actually pull the valve cover and apply the oil directly to the valve train, just pour it on like gravy on a turkey dinner plate.

This weekend I plan on doing some more Mystery oil. I will also loosen up the oil drain plug to see if anything comes out.

I was also thinking about taking a look at the brake that I think might be stuck. I'm thinking of jacking up the right rear tire then loosening the adjusting nuts for the brake and see if that helps at all. If not and I do pull the brake cover off is there going to be parts and pieces that fall out or is it made to all stay together so you can inspect and see how it works?
Should I spray any PB blaster in there to help free things up?

As I recall, the brake assembly should come off as a unit and not fall apart. Of course, if it is rusty enough to be stuck, it may be rusty enough to fall apart too. In that case, you probably have nothing to loose if it does fall apart. Depending on how/where it is stuck, the PB may not get far enough in to do any good, but you have little to loose by trying. I would be tempted to loosen the adjusting nuts then do some gentle tapping on the end of the rod to see if that shakes anything loose. Go easy on it, no point damaging the rod.

On the engine oil topic, there is a deflector inside the rocker cover that directs oil to the side as it is added. You will need to pull the cover to get any oil directly on the rockers or valves.

If I had room, I would move the tractor inside.

I would drain the differential and transmission, actually all fluids. Need to remove accumulated water, prevent from freezing.

Once inside, pull the head and pan, since tractor has been sitting outside for 20 years. Inspect for condition.

I wouldn't spend any money or work on the brakes or any other part of the tractor until I found out if engine repair was economically feasible.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet. Is the engine stuck or loose?

Not sure if the engine is froze up or not, I would like to try and figure that out.
Tonight before dark I was able to jack up the right rear tire and block it up off the ground.
My thinking was to look into the brakes and see if I can get the tire spinning.

Some things came to mind when I was jacking up the tire.

How get I see if the engine will turn over?

I thought I read somewhere that you can jack up the right rear tire and put the tractor in 4th gear then try and turn the
wheel. Would that work or would I have to have both rear tires off the ground?

Or would it be possible to engage the PTO and turn that by hand some how?

I don't have a hand crank so I'll have to find some other means of trying it.

Tomorrow I'll see what I can find out on the brakes. Thanks again.

So I worked on the brake today.
I got it apart and cleaned things up, it was full of dirt and rust. Now the wheel is spinning freely.

One question I have is when put things back together the wheel turned both forward and backward but
then it stopped going backwards? It will still spin to the right (forward) but not backwards. Does that seem
right?
The brake now works stopping the wheel when it is spinning forward. I'm just concerned if something
else might be wrong.

Stomp on the brake pedal a couple times then try it again. The center section, the part made of 2 big disks with the ball ramps in the middle, may be hanging some and not quite releasing. One side of it self energises going one way and the other side does the same going the other way. You may be getting that effect from a drag on one side.

Eric85":v5esglcd said:

Not sure if the engine is froze up or not. I thought I read somewhere that you can jack up the right rear tire and put the tractor in 4th gear then try and turn the wheel.

Click to expand...

Jack up only one rear wheel. Jacking up both wheels will only turn the differential and opposite wheel.

Since tractor moves just put in 4th gear and rock tractor forward and backward. Don't put a whole lot of effort into seeing if the engine is stuck. Expect engine to be stuck, perhaps rusted solid.

Wheel should spin freely in both directions. This tractor can't have a TA so there's nothing "normal" in the transmission or rear end that could be causing the "wheel turns forward only" problem.

It has to be related to the brake.

Take the brake back off and try it without the brake installed.

Just an update on what I did this weekend.

I got the brake working, you were right Jim. Stepping on the brake pedal a few times helped to get the wheel to turn in both directions.
All I did with the brake was take it apart and cleaned up the discs and steel balls with scotch brite, sand paper and a little brake clean. I didn't
lubricate the balls or anything else. I wasn't sure if I should or what to use.

Now that I had the wheel spinning I moved on to look at the engine.

I unscrewed the plug at the bottom of the oil pan and only a small amount of water came out, the rest was oil.
I then pulled the valve cover (pic below)



With the valve cover off and the plug from the oil pan out I thought it might be good to try and flush it out a little with some
diesel so I did and some nasty looking stuff came out. I then filled it with some 10w30 oil with the valve cover off to get some oil on the valves and shaft assembly.

With the spark plugs out and some more mystery oil in the cylinders I decided to see if I could put it in gear and get it to turn over with the wheel still being blocked up.
And with much relief all cylinders turned. I'm glad its not seized.

One thing I noticed while I had the valve cover off is that some of the valve lifter rods are bent and not lined up. Another pic



So how do the valve lifters attach and how hard is it to replace them?

Eric85":1u9i0yai said:

Some of the valve lifter rods are bent and not lined up. So how do the valve lifters attach and how hard is it to replace them?

Click to expand...

To replace the push rods loosen the nut on the rocker arm and back up the screw. You can use the valve tappet adjustment sequence to obtain a bit more clearance during push rod installation. If that doesn't provide enough room to remove (simply lift out) and install push rods, loosen the entire valve train assembly.

Bad news. Something stuck, typically valves, causing the bent push rods.

I figured it was bad news.

So what are my options?

Tonight before dark I pulled off the exhaust manifold and looked inside at the valves.
Things didn't look good. There was 3 or 4 that had a lot of rust on them. I sprayed them all down
with mystery oil and put things back together.
I figured I would let them soak for a day or two.

What is the best way to get them moving again?

Eric85":rhksqpoz said:

What is the best way to get them moving again?

Click to expand...

OK. Is this your first engine rebuild?

You need to assess the entire engine before spending any money or significant effort on salvaging or fixing one piece.

Start with pulling the head and removing the pan. Remove pistons - if stuck push out the piston with the sleeve.

Head, remove the valve springs. Soak valve stems with solvent for a week. You may need to press the valves out of the valve stems. Check each valve and seat condition.

If block in not cracked and the crankshaft is still serviceable or reworkable condition then the engine can be rebuilt.

If the tractor were mine, I would split it, put the engine on the engine stand. Completely disassemble, measure and record. Then figure out what I needed for parts and machine work.

If you can turn the engine over you can watch the valves go up and down and see if any are stuck. Now that the valve cover is off... Those pushrods could have been bent for a long long time.

If your goal here right now is to hear it run again, you can "redneck it" to a certain extent without causing issues.

Look up a channel on youtube called "ElderlyIron." The latest several videos show how the host resurrects a 389 cubic inch V8 engine. A lot of it applies to your situation. He goes through checking compression, freeing stuck valves, rebuilding the carburetor, and by the end he has that old engine running pretty good, all without a complete teardown.