Trying to save a Super C

Farmall C & Super C Tractors, 1948-1954

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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Don McCombs » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:11 pm

Your Super C is a 1952. They all had the C-123 engine. Standing on the right side of the tractor, you should find a machined spot on the block on the forward, upper part of the right side of the block. The engine serial number should be stamped there.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:05 pm

Good to know.
Thanks again,

Right now I'm trying to get a list of things I will need come spring when I can get it inside to pull the head.

So far I know I'll need a can of kroil.

But I'm also thinking of getting plastigage, some push rods, and a head gasket set, and maybe a oil pan gasket.

In the mean time I'll just keep pushing the snow off of it and spraying mystery oil in it.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:29 pm

Eric85 wrote:What I'll need to get for tools and parts to pull the head and remove the valves.
Valve spring compressor and a torque wrench to plastigage the crankshaft journals. Probably borrow them from the auto parts store. NAPA use to have loaner tools. Perhaps other auto parts stores. You will need other specialized tools as you get deeper into the engine.
Eric85 wrote:Right now I'm trying to get a list of things I will need come spring when I can get it inside to pull the head. So far I know I'll need a can of kroil. But I'm also thinking of getting plastigage, some push rods, and a head gasket set, and maybe a oil pan gasket.
Parts. Do not order any parts until you have determined what you need - have measured the engine parts and assessed needed machine work and parts.

Example: You will need a valve cover gasket, head gasket, and pan gasket just to remove the head and pan. It may be cheaper to purchase a complete gasket set for the tractor than buying the 3 gaskets separately.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:37 pm

Yup, don't buy any engine parts unless/until you have it apart. Even then you'd probably ought to wait for the advice of the machinist before buying anything.

No telling how many times its been rebuilt or what's in there. You could have standard, .002, .010, or larger oversize bearings in the mains and rods. Standard or overbore pistons/sleeves.

I think the overbore pistons give you 132 cubic inches vs. the standard 123.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:56 am

Well I decided to bring the tractor inside. Its a little tight but I think it will work.

This weekend I was able to pull the cylinder head off and drop the oil pan.

Looking at the crankshaft things don't look to bad, its fairly clean.

With the head off I'm able to get a closer look at the cylinder walls and two of them have some slight surface rust on them.

I'm kinda lost on what to do next, thinking of getting plastigage and checking the crankshaft bearings.

I'll post pics soon.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:19 pm

Refresh my memory, is the engine stuck?

With the head off you could try the "fire" method. Basically you fill each cylinder with diesel fuel and light them on fire, one at a time. Clearly this should be done OUTSIDE, away from buildings.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:24 pm

Not sure about building a fire in each cylinder. Any way, engine stuck or not, put enough solvent in each cylinder to cover entire edges of the piston head. Some solvent will either evaporate or drain into the crankcase - just refresh the solvent level every day. Tractor in high gear, rear wheel, rock the tractor back and forth - checking for stuck engine.

Reach inside each cylinder. Finger nail against cylinder wall drag upward - you are looking for the ring ridge. If significant, enough to catch the finger nail, you will need a ridge remover. Ridge must be removed before pulling the pistons.

I would push out each piston after plastigaging the crankshaft journal.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby bob in CT » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:15 pm

There are Super C manuals posted above in the (NEW) Manuals section.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:07 pm

The engine is Not stuck. All the pistons are moving.

Good to know about the ring ridge Eugene, The book I have mentions it and I know there is a special tool used. I will do the finger nail method and see what I find.

I got some plastigage today and have a few questions. In the plastigage kit it came with the "green" 0.001 to 0.003 inch and the "red" 0.002 to 0.006 inch.
I'm wondering what one I should use because in the service manual under the specifications section for the crankshaft its a little confusing.

There are three main bearings on the crankshaft. What I'm confused with is the differeance between the main bearing running clearance which is 0.0009 to 0.0039
and the Maximum permissible main bearing clearance which is 0.0055.

Which one do I go by and what size plasitgage do I use?
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:34 pm

Eric85 wrote:In the plastigage kit it came with the "green" 0.001 to 0.003 inch and the "red" 0.002 to 0.006 inch.
Use the .002 - .006, or the red stick.
There are three main bearings on the crankshaft. What I'm confused with is the difference between the main bearing running clearance which is 0.0009 to 0.0039 and the Maximum permissible main bearing clearance which is 0.0055.
Running clearance is the measurement between the dry (no oil) bearing insert and the dry crankshaft journal on a newly rebuilt engine. Maximum permissible clearance is = time for an overhaul. Kinda a rule of thumb is that you want .001" of clearance for each inch of crankshaft journal diameter.

Not sure where the .0009" clearance came from. I&T, IH-8 lists the Series C main bearing running clearance as .001 - .0035. Since the C's main journals (standard) are listed at 2.124 - 2.125" I would like to see around .002" clearance with new inserts.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:38 pm

Thank you
That definitely helps.

I was thinking;
When I go to torque the bolts on the main bearings (to 78 foot-pounds) I think I’m going to have to use an extension on my torque wrench.

Will the extension on the wrench affect my accuracy? I’m using the clicker type torque wrench.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby bob in CT » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:48 pm

Eric85 wrote:Thank you
That definitely helps.

I was thinking;
When I go to torque the bolts on the main bearings (to 78 foot-pounds) I think I’m going to have to use an extension on my torque wrench.

Will the extension on the wrench affect my accuracy? I’m using the clicker type torque wrench.

In theory, a socket extension will have an effect as the extension itself will have some torsional twist. It is well within the margin of error in your wrench, however. There are tables out there that can be used if you are curious, but it would probably be more beneficial to calibrate the wrench than worry about the extension! Edit: thinking about this, the torque is transmitted right through the entire system and as long as everything is straight you are OK. Something like a crow's foot would change things as you are changing your fulcrum.

If you are talking about a cheater bar on the end of the wrench to get more leverage- that is meaningless.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:30 am

Good to know about the torque wrench, thank you.

I used the "red" plastigage last night on the center main bearing. I wiped everything clean before I used it and after torqueing the bolts to the 78 ft lbs I got
0.005.
I have not done the other two bearings yet. Question I have is should the bolts be dry? I didn't clean the oil off of the bolts before re-torqueing them.

Also will the temp in the garage affect my results? It has been pretty cold here in NH, I bet it was around 10 degrees F in the garage last night.

My plan is to do the other two bearings tonight. I'm also going to use a different torque wrench tonight to see how it compares to the one I have been
using.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby bob in CT » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:33 am

Eric85 wrote:Good to know about the torque wrench, thank you.

I used the "red" plastigage last night on the center main bearing. I wiped everything clean before I used it and after torqueing the bolts to the 78 ft lbs I got
0.005.
I have not done the other two bearings yet. Question I have is should the bolts be dry? I didn't clean the oil off of the bolts before re-torqueing them.

Also will the temp in the garage affect my results? It has been pretty cold here in NH, I bet it was around 10 degrees F in the garage last night.

My plan is to do the other two bearings tonight. I'm also going to use a different torque wrench tonight to see how it compares to the one I have been
using.

This will tell you all you need to know about torquing bolts under different conditions: http://www.farmallcub.com/fcman/download.php?fname=./files/Reference%20Info/Torque%20*%20Bolt%20ID.pdf
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:50 am

.005" is at the upper end of permitted clearance. Temperature will make a very minor difference in the clearance reading. Not enough difference to change the .005" indicated clearance. Remove the bearing insert from the rod and main caps and record the numbers with cap and insert location. Numbers will indicate the journal size.
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