Confused on what controle valve I need

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Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:24 pm

I have a henderson loader that runs off seperate pump hooked to the pto. The controle valve is on the pump now. I want to put a by pass block on the TC and a controle valve for the loader arms. I also want to add a piston to the bucket so it will no longer be a trip bucket. Will I need to add a resivoir? and what kind of controle valve. I have seen three different types and there are probubly more.
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby tst » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:50 pm

That looks like an old snow plow pump adapted to run the loader, they turned in the other direction so they mounted it backwards on your cub to make it work, here is a link to the henderson factory instructions that will give you a better idea how they hooked it up
Tim

http://www.tm-tractor.com/gbrochures/he ... dloboy.htm
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:20 pm

Tim
mine is actualy the first brochure that TM has listed for the henderson loaders. It shows that you dont use a bypass block but plumb the suply into the pluged fitting as you would if you had the block installed and then it goes to the controle valve they call the (Philips valve) the the return goes from the controle valve back to the TC block on the back right of the TC. You take the tc and run it up so it hits the crossover pipe on the body of the loader and then I think that is how the presure gets to the controle valve for the bucket.

I want to modify that set up so it will operate with the bypass block method. Add an extra cylinder for the bucket. modify the crossover so the rock shaft will still work. I just kneed to know what type of controle vave is right for my aplication.
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Eugene » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:37 pm

This is going to be an interesting project.

Reservoir, You will need some type of additional hydraulic fluid storage. Touch Control only holds 4 1/4 pints. You need to find out the fluid volume of the two single action lift arm cylinders, the two way hydraulic cylinder or cylinders for the bucket, and the hydraulic hoses/lines.

You will need two hydraulic control valves. One for the single action lift arm cylinders and one for the bucket cylinder. This could be a set of valves or individual valves ganged together. You will need a flow diagram of the valves to make sure that one of the valves will work with the single action cylinders.

You will need to sketch out a hydraulic flow diagram - a plan on how the system is going to work. Then a list of parts and prices.

Guessing, the valves alone will run $250- to $300-.
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby tst » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:01 pm

Tm tractor sells the bypass block that fits in between the lines and touch control, http://www.surpluscenter.com/ is a good source for hydraulic parts
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Rudi » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:28 pm

Pete:

There are a number of ways you can do this. I am no genius, but I have managed to learn how to plumb both my blade and my splitter into Ellie's TC system. Check out these links for some ideas. I had to use an auxiliary tank as well to provide sufficient hy-tran for the hydraulics. You don't need an expensive valve, what you do need is a valve and a pressure relieve valve. A used Cessna Eaton valve (available on :eBay: ), a pressure relief valve from Northern Tools, Harbor Freight etc., and a used outdoor power equipment fuel tank is essentially what you need along with the hydraulic fittings and hoses or steel lines if you can bend them. A lot of that info can be found in the splitter project. Hope it helps and remember Image.


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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:35 pm

OK
so corrrect me if im wrong here. I am looking at a three way directional controle valve for the single acting pistons on the loader arms, and a four way directional controle valve for the double acting piston on the bucket. Does that sound right?

ALso I have herd that the hydrolics on the cub is only about 5 GPM and the PSI is about 1200 for relief setting. Does this sound right?
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:07 pm

WOW Rudi that is a realy nice set up Thanks so much for adding that to this post. Realy is a cool thing. Sure is nice to have people like that around you to help out isnt it?
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Eugene » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:46 pm

I am looking at a three way directional control valve and a four way directional control valve.
Correct. Again, you need to check the flow diagram for each valve to see if they can be combined into one operational unit.
The hydraulics on the cub is only about 5 GPM and the PSI is about 1200 for relief setting.
2.8 gpm and 1100 to 1500 psi. From service manual.
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Matt Kirsch » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:04 pm

One important feature you want to look for in a control valve is that it's OPEN CENTER. The Cub hydraulic system is an open center system, and a closed center valve will cause a deadhead, and result in damage to your hydraulic system.

I also prefer control valves with NPT threaded fittings. NPT is standard pipe thread and very common.

Surplus Center is a good place to find somewhat reasonably priced hydraulic parts. They call "four way" a double acting valve, and "three way" a single acting valve.

Normally they have a combination valve with one single, one double, but apparently they're sold out.
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Rudi » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:22 pm

Pete:

Matt brings up a point that is really important especially for those of us who are not fluid techs. Gotta keep things simple. As Matt said it is an Open Center system so it makes sense to use OEM style Open Center Valves - which is why I got mine from Joe's Outdoor Power.

These are the ones I used for both my hydraulic blade project and for my splitter project. Simple single valves. Not what you may need for your loader unless it is a trip bucket.

Image
Cub Cadet 149 Tractor Hydraulic Control Valve

If the Henderson isn't a trip bucket, then a Dual Hydraulic Valve might be the way to go.

Image
Cub Cadet 982 1912 Tractor Dual Hydraulic Control Valve

The reason why I like these is because they are original IH equipment, not for a Cub but for the Cub Cadets. So it kinda keeps it real, at least to my mind. Being on a budget, I had to save my pennies where I could. I bought my 4 valves for $9.99 each ... prices has gone up a bit since then even though it has only been a couple years. The Duals have always been way more money.

Northern Tool has a Prince PRV available:

Image
Prince Adjustable Relief Valve — 1/2in., Model# RD-1850-H

I think 3/8" lines are more than sufficient considering the GPM of a Cub, but your Henderson might have 1/2" hoses. It might also be cheaper to redo the hoses as the larger sized fittings are more expensive but I wouldn't go below 3/8". Also, I use NPT fittings as well. The threads on these valves are 3/8" NPT but the standard opposing end is usually a JIC fitting. ORB and JIC are a bit more expensive. Tried to find some fittings at Northern Tool and Harbor Freight - but still seems like Princess Auto is the best on line resource for looking up parts etc. -- Hydraulics - Fittings - NPT. I do have a neat collection of JIC fittings now though :lol:

There are many options out there but I guess it all depends on the state of one's budget.
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Smokeycub » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:58 pm

Hey Rudi,
Really nice job on the splitter! ...and a great job on the documentaion! Thanks for posting it (again), it's the first I've seen it. I've wondered several times how well the Cubs hydraulics would handle a splitter, now I know.

I've put together several log splitters over the years using various pumps. One used a two stage pump (rated at 16 gpm) that reduced the oil flow at around 1200 psi and then boosted the pressure in this application to around 2000 psi, this set up will split wood cross grain, it will cut a 4" or 5" maple or cherry branch in half. Like the macine you rented it really wasn't much faster that yours in the video, go figure!

I was wondering what kind of pressure shows on your guage when maxed out, (when your relief valve kicks in). What size bore the cylinder has and how well it does on the really tough pieces of wood? The bigger the bore the more force it exerts as well as slows things down a little.

Thanks for posting.

tst wrote:How To Build A Cub Mounted Wood Splitter
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Rudi » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:21 pm

Ray:

Thanks for the kind words. It has been a project that I wanted to do for a very long time. Since I heat my home with wood, it really is a high use item. Lot of fun to build too. It is great when Ray and I get to work together on stuff. Very satisfying when family can do things together.

To answer your question, I have the PRV set for around 1,000psi but in actuality it seems to kick off around 900lbs. The cylinder is 3". Not all that big but enough. Sure does impress a lot of folks -- my wife's uncle still can't get over it -- he always believed a Cub wasn't worth much except to plow and cultivate a small garden. I keep surprising him with all the stuff Ellie can do.

I have only run into a few things I can't split. Usually really gnarly spruce can prove to be difficult. Same thing with some elm I got this past spring - even the big 30 ton had a hard time with it. Like my splitter these hard to split chunks need to be slabbed off. Once the first slab comes off, the rest usually follow quite easily. Oh, and the 30 ton couldn't split the gnarly spruce either -- but it sure made a nice bonfire :D

Pete:

Yup, Ray has been a lot of help especially when I need specific stuff that I cannot do by myself. I now have my welding course but not my crane course .... if you get me meaning :lol:
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:32 am

Another comment I thought of: IMHO it's best to get a control with 2 valves in the same body than try to hook two separate valves together.

If you cannot find one with one single-acting, and one double-acting, you can use two double-acting valves. You'll have one extra port left over on the boom lift control. Simply run a hose from that back into the auxiliary reservoir.
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Re: Confused on what controle valve I need

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:40 pm

Mat I was thinking of that but I didnt know if it would work that way or not. I want to have a clean perfesional look when im done. That would be the way to go, if it will work for the single acting piston.
Pete from Virginia Beach


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