Trying to save a Super C

Farmall C & Super C Tractors, 1948-1954

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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:29 pm

Do I need a special tool to get the oil ring spacers out?
No. Any available tool that won't scratch the piston. Just lift one end and carefully work the spacer out of the groove and off the piston. If you damage the spacer or break the rings - no problem because you are not going to reinstall them .

You can use a broken piston ring to clean out the ring grooves.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:08 pm

I got the spacers out.
The oil ring groove measures (without the spacers in it) 0.244"

Piston skirt measurements. I don't have the service manual for this particular engine. You need to obtain the IH manual for the engine - not the I&T manual. Service manual will provide the specific allowable piston skirt diameter.


The service manual I have (Jensales super c) has skirt clearance for the 123 series engine in the specifications section. It reads skirt clearance bottom-0.0011-0.0019
Skirt clearance, top 0.0011-0.0019
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:55 am

Clean up the piston ring grooves and remeasure. Check accuracy of you calipers.

From Valu-Bilt catalog. Super C with 3-3/16" pistons. Compression rings - 3/32" (.09375). Oil rings 1/4" (.250).
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:25 am

I still have to finish up cleaning pistons and measureing the rest of the grooves.
But the rings that you speak of are chome, is that right?
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:50 am

Eric85 wrote:But the rings that you speak of are chome, is that right?
Valu-Bilt. Note in descriptions says "Not for use with chrome sleeve liners". Which would indicate the rings are chrome faced or contain chrome.

If you have chrome sleeve liners, cast iron piston rings are available. Auto parts store.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:36 am

How can I tell if the sleeve liners are chrome or not?

Will using a magnet on the sleeve tell me if its chrome? (if it sticks?)
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:17 pm

Eric85 wrote:Will using a magnet on the sleeve tell me if its chrome? (if it sticks?)
No. If in doubt, use case iron piston rings.

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTips/ ... inders.htm
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:06 pm

I wanted to try the copper sulfate test to find out if the sleeves are chome or not. But couldn't find a place that sells it.
So if its safe to use the case iron piston rings then thats what I'll do. I plan to check out a few different places for pricing.

I still have to check the other piston ring grooves (on pistons 1 and 4) to make sure they are the same or close to #2 and #3.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:07 pm

I'm continuing to remove piston rings and cleaning up the pistons.
As I removed the piston rings When I removed the oil ring and the spacers I found another ring behind the oil ring. Here is a pic of what
found.
Image

Image

My question is what is it? and do I reuse it or will the new ring set have one of these with it?
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Wakulla Bill » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:11 pm

That is an oil control ring spacer and you will get them in the new ring set. they will probally appear different as certain manufactures have differing styles,but will work just fine.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:08 am

If the new ring set does not give me the correct gap when I check the new rings in the bore

what is the best way to file rings if need be?

I'm hoping I won't have to do this but I have yet to find out.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:49 am

I'm having a hard time finding cast iron rings for the 3 3/16 pistons.

The part number on the pistons I have are 370 147 R1 and according to my parts manual is a 3 3/16 aluminum piston.

It has two compression rings and one oil ring.

Everyone I seem to talk to says they can't get cast iron rings and that they have never seen these tractors with
chome sleeves.
I can however get rings that are chome.
I really don't think the sleeves were ever changed and if they were how likely is it that they were chome and not cast iron sleeves?

The related part numbers for the rings with the piston I have ( according to the parts manual) are as follows

Top comp. ring 370 154 R1 (chome)

Mid comp. ring 370 155 R1

oil ring 370 156 R91 (chome)

Obviously this is the first time I've had to order rings so any advice and help is appreciated.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:34 pm

Eric85 wrote:Everyone I seem to talk to says they can't get cast iron rings and that they have never seen these tractors with chome sleeves.

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/RingFinderDi ... D=3%203/16
2C prefix = Chrome. 2M = Moly. No prefix = cast iron.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:38 pm

Thanks,

I called hasting mfg. today to ask about the rings for the 3 and 3/16 piston. The sets they make both have the oil ring as chome.
The two compression rings are cast iron.

I can't find any copper sulfate to do the test with. I find it hard to believe that between when this tractor was made and
1975 when my grandfather got it that it had chome sleeves installed. What would have been the point? It was always used
as a tractor.
Were chome sleeves available for this tractor in that time frame?
I would like to find out whats in there and obviously I don't want to throw a ring set in the engine then have it cause damage.

I never thought getting the rings would have been so completed- problem is trying to figure what the sleeves are made out of.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:55 pm

Eric, Talk to your local high school chemistry teacher. Copper sulfate is a pretty common chemical and you could probably get a teaspoonful to test with. If there is a fertilizer company or pool chemical supply close by, check with them also. As a last resort, you can buy it online.

Bob
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