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Battery Charging?
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- twotone
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:09 pm
- Zip Code: 15132
- Tractors Owned: 53 F Cub
73 F Cub
53 Super A With Snow/Grader Blade
193 Plow With Colter And Jointer
144 Cultivators
22 Mower - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles,Pa.
Battery Charging?
I just put a new battery in my 53 Cub that hadn't been started in 6 months. The old battery wouldn't even take a charge. It popped right off with the new battery, but the amp guage didn't move. I checked battery voltage with a VOM, engine not running, at 6.3 volts. With engine running it's 6.5 volts. When I ground out the field terminal, it charges at 8.7 volts. The amp guage doesn't move under any of these conditions. I put a new (american made) VR on it less than 2 years ago. It sounds like the VR to me, or is the new battery only needing 6.5 volts to keep charged?
Tom
Tom
Know Your Cub, And Your Cub Will Know You.
Tom
Tom
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 5189
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:08 pm
- Zip Code: 12514
- Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Battery Charging?
did you try and polarize it?, check for good grounds also
Tim
Tim
- twotone
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:09 pm
- Zip Code: 15132
- Tractors Owned: 53 F Cub
73 F Cub
53 Super A With Snow/Grader Blade
193 Plow With Colter And Jointer
144 Cultivators
22 Mower - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles,Pa.
Re: Battery Charging?
Tim, I did polarize it and ran a seperate ground. I'm stumped.
Tom
Tom
Know Your Cub, And Your Cub Will Know You.
Tom
Tom
- oronc
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:37 am
- Zip Code: 24153
- Tractors Owned: 1950 Allis Chalmers B, 1942 Farmall H,Kubota B2150hst
48 Cubplow,cultiv,carry all,blade.other stuff
and other junk - Location: SALEM VA.
Re: Battery Charging?
New regulators have to be adjusted, Make sure the reg. is for pos. ground , Remove the cover,You will see two contacts one for the cut-out side and one for the reg. side the gap on those points will need to be closed more or open more to set the charging.
- LeeC
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:07 pm
- Zip Code: 22150
- Tractors Owned: 2 1962 LoBoys
1 1964 LoBoy
1 1965 LoBoy
1 1966 LoBoy - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Springfield, VA
Re: Battery Charging?
twotone wrote:...... When I ground out the field terminal, it charges at 8.7 volts. The amp guage doesn't move under any of these conditions. .....
Sounds like the guage or wiring to me.
- John *.?-!.* cub owner
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 23701
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
- Location: Mo, Potosi
Re: Battery Charging?
Your voltage readings at the battery indicate both that it is charging and that the regulator is working. I can think of 2 possibilities, one is that ammeter is bad, and second is that wiring is incorrect.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!
you are part of the problem!!!
- twotone
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:09 pm
- Zip Code: 15132
- Tractors Owned: 53 F Cub
73 F Cub
53 Super A With Snow/Grader Blade
193 Plow With Colter And Jointer
144 Cultivators
22 Mower - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles,Pa.
Re: Battery Charging?
I haven't changed the wiring and the amp guage used to work, so I'm going try a new amp guage.
Tom
Tom
Know Your Cub, And Your Cub Will Know You.
Tom
Tom
- gitractorman
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2678
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
- Zip Code: 14072
- eBay ID: toysforjake
- Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1964 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Mitsubishi MT180D 4x4 Diesel - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Grand Island, NY
Re: Battery Charging?
I thought that the amp gauge only showed positive for charging and negative for discharging. If it's charging at 6.5v, and the battery is at 6.3v the amp gauge should show 0, as it's likely not enough of a charge for the gauge to detect. The amp gauges on these tractors are really not that sensitive, and if it's the original one, it may be even less sensitive. It may have worked before because it was trying to charge the battery, but it was not taking a charge, therefore, showing positive charge all the time.
Just some thoughts.
Just some thoughts.
Cub Cadets 682, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
- Denny Clayton
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4565
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:18 pm
- Zip Code: 45365
- Tractors Owned: Home to "Rusty", the 2007 and 2009 Cub Tug Champion.
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OH, Sidney
Re: Battery Charging?
Does the amp gauge show a discharge when the switch is turned on or the lights turned on? If not the gauge is likely not working.
- twotone
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:09 pm
- Zip Code: 15132
- Tractors Owned: 53 F Cub
73 F Cub
53 Super A With Snow/Grader Blade
193 Plow With Colter And Jointer
144 Cultivators
22 Mower - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles,Pa.
Re: Battery Charging?
Denny, the guage does not show a discharge when the lights are turned on. The needle does not move at all under any conditions.
Tom
Tom
Know Your Cub, And Your Cub Will Know You.
Tom
Tom
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:17 pm
- Zip Code: 48180
- Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub with
- 54 Blade
- 193 Moldboard Plow
- Woods 59 C-2 mower
Re: Battery Charging?
In reference to the last two posts.
"A feature to be noted in connection with the combined current-voltage regulator is that generator output increases as the electrical load (lights, ignition, etc.) is added to the "L" terminal of the regulator. Since the load current bypasses the regulator current winding, it has no effect of the battery charging rate so long as the total load does not exceed the maximum output, controlled by the third brush of the generator, at operating speed. The third brush of the generator is not adjustable but is positioned to allow maximum generator output." Page 20-21 of the GSS-1012 Blue Ribbon Service Manual, Electrical Equipment. Turning the lights on should not make the ammeter move, if everything is working as it was designed to work (good battery, good generator, good regulator and good wiring).
The two manuals that are essential when working on the electrical system are the GSS-1012 and the GSS-1052-C. Covered in both of the manuals is a complete text for testing and maintaining the entire electrical system, including the maintenence, testing and setting of the voltage-regulator. If the battery is good, the generator is charging it sounds as if the voltage-regulator is doing what it is supposed to do.
"A feature to be noted in connection with the combined current-voltage regulator is that generator output increases as the electrical load (lights, ignition, etc.) is added to the "L" terminal of the regulator. Since the load current bypasses the regulator current winding, it has no effect of the battery charging rate so long as the total load does not exceed the maximum output, controlled by the third brush of the generator, at operating speed. The third brush of the generator is not adjustable but is positioned to allow maximum generator output." Page 20-21 of the GSS-1012 Blue Ribbon Service Manual, Electrical Equipment. Turning the lights on should not make the ammeter move, if everything is working as it was designed to work (good battery, good generator, good regulator and good wiring).
The two manuals that are essential when working on the electrical system are the GSS-1012 and the GSS-1052-C. Covered in both of the manuals is a complete text for testing and maintaining the entire electrical system, including the maintenence, testing and setting of the voltage-regulator. If the battery is good, the generator is charging it sounds as if the voltage-regulator is doing what it is supposed to do.
Where you are, right now, is of absolutly no use unless you are able to get away from it, FAST!
- twotone
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:09 pm
- Zip Code: 15132
- Tractors Owned: 53 F Cub
73 F Cub
53 Super A With Snow/Grader Blade
193 Plow With Colter And Jointer
144 Cultivators
22 Mower - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles,Pa.
Re: Battery Charging?
After further testing, the volts do not increase with the engine running, in fact, they go down. I'm going to throw a VR at it and see what happens, easier than replacing a guage, and if it isn't the problem I have a spare VR, which is probably a good thing.
Tom
Tom
Know Your Cub, And Your Cub Will Know You.
Tom
Tom
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1421
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:54 pm
- Zip Code: 60073
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: IL, Round Lake Heights
Re: Battery Charging?
twotone wrote: I'm going to throw a VR at it and see what happens, easier than replacing a guage
Rather than sink money into another VR, I would recommend that you do as Oronc suggests, and check the gaps to ensure they are according to the manual specs. I went through several VRs. When the third one failed, I took the cover off and found that the gaps weren't quite right. Reset it, and she started charging again. I'm a packrat, so I had saved the previous VRs. Pulled the cover off one of them, and the gaps weren't right on that one either. So I reset that one, and it works now as well. Haven't tried the third one yet, but I suspect I will find the same thing.
Michael Cummings
Eddie - a 1959 International Lo-Boy named after my father in law, who who bought her new.
Eddie - a 1959 International Lo-Boy named after my father in law, who who bought her new.
- twotone
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:09 pm
- Zip Code: 15132
- Tractors Owned: 53 F Cub
73 F Cub
53 Super A With Snow/Grader Blade
193 Plow With Colter And Jointer
144 Cultivators
22 Mower - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles,Pa.
Re: Battery Charging?
More testing. With engine running, 6.3 volts going to and coming out of guage. Needle doesen't move. Engine running with field terminal grounded. 8.4 volts going into and coming out of guage, still no needle movement. Bad VR and guage?
Tom
Tom
Know Your Cub, And Your Cub Will Know You.
Tom
Tom
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2784
- Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
- Zip Code: 48370
- Tractors Owned: 184
- Location: Oxford, MI
Re: Battery Charging?
The guage measures amps, not volts. Put an accurate Ammeter in series with the guage. The guage may be reading zero because it is shorted out.
With the engine not running, the ammeter should show a discharge when the lights are turned on. If this is not happening, then it has nothing to do with the VR.
Solve this issue before tackling the perceived charging issue.
With the engine not running, the ammeter should show a discharge when the lights are turned on. If this is not happening, then it has nothing to do with the VR.
Solve this issue before tackling the perceived charging issue.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade
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