Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby Eugene » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:38 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:You can test this out while the covers are off the tractor and the engine is off. (Use a rope or a tiedown to hold the clutch pedal while testing) Put the tractor in third (road gear).
Tie or block the clutch pedal down. In 3rd gear. Roll the tractor forward or backward. If the clutch is working the drive shaft and engine will not turn. If the drive shaft and engine turn with the clutch depressed - problem is within the clutch system - some place.

Leave the clutch brake disconnected - as shown in your last photo.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby WestDeerPirate » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:02 pm

I didn't get a chance to check out any of the suggestions that folks have had for me tonight. THats what having a 8 month old boy and a wife that works nights is all about. Simple question:

What is the likelyhood that replacing the clutch, clutch pressure plate and throw out bearing will solve the issue of the tractor not going into gear based on the pressure plate movement being roughly 1/2" when the clutch is pushed in and the fact that replacing the clutch brake lining "pucks" did nothing to slow the flywheel for me?

I am considering buying HamiltonBobs clutch, pressure plate TO bearing kit for $166.00 and having Turner Tractor in Evans City, PA complete the install and make the final adjustments. I have no time, noone locally that I am aware of that can help me and limited knowledge about adjusting clutches, etc.

What is the likelyhood that this will solve the problem?
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:37 am

It still sounds more like an adjustment issue than a broken or worn out component issue.
Unfortunately, the adjustments are where most mechanics fail on these tractors. Too much adjusted space in one area causes a different issue in another area. It's a balancing act.

I do like the parts supplied by HamiltonBob. They are top notch. Before you buy parts, find out what you need.
Do the roll test with the clutch 1" up in third gear when you get some time. A rusted stuck clutch plate needs freed up and worked, not a new clutch.

P.S. If you take your tractor in, then also bring them the service manual pages for the clutch. The mechanic will need it. There aren't other tractors out there with a clutch like the 154 has. More than likely the mechanic hasn't worked on these before.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby WestDeerPirate » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:18 am

Will do. I am going to check the Throw out bearing for movement, do the 3rd gear clutch test to see what does and does not move. I will also try to seperate the clutch from the pressure plate to see if they are in fact stuck as suggested.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby WestDeerPirate » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:21 pm

Spoke with Bob at HamiltonCub and he suggested that the clutch plate is likely rusted to the flywheel as was suggested here. He metioned backing out the clutch adjustment as far as it will go (2 nuts on the threaded rod underneath), followed by the 3rd gear clutch in test, followed by WD40 and the trying to sperate by light tapping. So that is what I am going home to do this evening. Hopefully one of the first 2 tests will determine that they are frozen together.

I will then check for play with the throw out bearing to see if it moves on me.

I will update here tomorrow with my finding so that anyone else who runs into this scenario has the results as well. Thanks everyone for your patience with me and sthe suggestions. Wish me luck.

p.s. If none of these things work I'll be buying the clutch plate, cluth, throw out bearing kit and getting it repiared at Turner Tractor nearby in Evans City, PA.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby Eugene » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:28 pm

Do the clutch depressed, rocking the tractor in 3rd gear test first. If the clutch disk is stuck to the pressure plate you will need to drop off and slide the mower deck out of the way to access the clutch linkage adjustment.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:34 pm

WestDeerPirate wrote:Lastly, If i run the tractor after forcing it into gear and running it for a while sometimes it will simply go into gear without any grinding. THis is like 1 out of 10 times though.

If this is still true, the disk is not stuck to the pressure plate.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby WestDeerPirate » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:00 pm

Based on the tests listed above here is what I found.

1. The Clutch plate rotates along witht he flywheel no matter what. They definately are rusted together
2. Blocking the clutch pedal to the compressed position and placing the shifter in the 3rd gear position... attempting to rock the tractor back and forth I could hardly budge the tractor pushing it forward and back with any change. Both shafts moved.
3. In neutral neither shaft turned.
4. Block in place, clutch pedal fully compressed, transmission in 3rd gear rocking forward or back both the drive shaft and what I call th PTO shaft did turn.
5. Clutch plate between clutch pressure plate and flywheel was ceased or rusted to the flywheel. When the tractor was on, the clutch plate spun with the flywheel.
6. PB blaster and WD 40 did not break the clutch plate from the flywheel
7. Lightly tapping on the clutch plate did nothing to free it from spinning with the flywheel.
8. Noticed the clutch pedal return spring was connected to the frame before the clutch rod adjusting yoke but not attached to the other end.
9. I placed a block of wood to keep the clutch pedal compressed, placed the tractor in 3rd gear, attached a drag line to my truck and dragged the tractor about 15 feet without the clutch plate breaking losse from the flywheel.

What I learned: Clutch plate is rusted to the flywheel for certain. Clutch pressure plate seems to be even as far as the 3 spring loaded arms are concerned. Throw out bearing seems to engage as it is supposed to based on the tolerances announced throughtout this thread. Some movement maybe 1/4" forward and back with clutch depressed and not engaged (pushed in). Not the answer to the issues I am experiencing.

I placed a wood block between the clutch all the way compressed and the notch welded to the right side of the frame. I then placed the shifter up and to the right position. Could not move it by hand very far at all. Perhaps 12" forward and back. Tied the yoke on the front of the tractor to the hitch on my truck and dragged it while still in 3rd gear and could not break anything loose.

Botom line: Was told that even if I were to break the plate loose from the flywheel it would need replaced so I wound up buying the pressure placte, clutch plate and throw out bearing from HamiltonBobsCubs for $178 shipped.
Last edited by WestDeerPirate on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby outdoors4evr » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:50 am

Good investigation!
While waiting for your parts (shouldn't be long having received parts from HamiltonBobsCubs previously), Hold the clutch down with the block and use something like a paint scraper to slip between the clutch and driven flywheel. Use a small hammer to tap the scraper in and work your way around the clutch (wherever you can get to) and get the clutch separated from the flywheel.

When replacing your clutch, you will have to decide whether to reface the flywheel (have it machined) or just to sand off the rust.
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby WestDeerPirate » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:20 am

Thank you sir. That's pretty smart thinkin right there.

I think I have the right sized scraper too!!
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Re: Grinding when Shifting from Neutral to Any Gear

Postby Eugene » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:34 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
WestDeerPirate wrote:Lastly, If i run the tractor after forcing it into gear and running it for a while sometimes it will simply go into gear without any grinding. THis is like 1 out of 10 times though.

If this is still true, the disk is not stuck to the pressure plate.


WestDeerPirate wrote:What I learned: Clutch plate is rusted to the flywheel for certain.
Not necessarily so. There is a bushing in the thing you called a flywheel. Pilot bushings have been known to freeze up on the drive shaft.

I have not read that the throwout bearing to clutch fingers distance was measured or adjusted.

There are several method of freeing up clutch disks stuck to flywheels. Putty knife or scraper and hammer isn't one.

I do agree, get professional help.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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