1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Farmall H, HV & Super H, 300 & 350, 1939-1958

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Greeny
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1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Greeny » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:39 pm

I now have a 1941 Model H Farmall. It's been restored, but isn't running. It's a 12v system (+ ground) so far as I know. We drained all the gas and put in new fuel- The tank was really clean, just old gas. We replaced the battery and both cables. It cranks over great, but doesn't fire up. All the wiring, cap, plugs, etc.. is brand new, just dusty as it's been sitting for a few years. It appears the coil isn't delivering a spark. Any one have any ideas or live locally that can hop over a lend a knowledgeable hand? Any help would be appreciated.

Martin
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Greeny
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Greeny » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:35 pm

For some unknown reason, we can get it to fire and run for a few seconds at a time. So.. looks like possible carb problems now. What is that mechanism above the steering wheel? Some sort of timing advance?

staninlowerAL
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:48 pm

In addition to the comments in the Introduction form, some more "need to know" information is does your tractor have a magneto? If so does it have an internal or external coil? Does it have an alternator or generator? The comment about "sitting for a few years" would indicate that at least the points need to be checked for clean, bright, shiny contact surfaces. Providing a little more insight into what you are working with will be very helpful.
EDIT TO INCLUDE YOUR POSTED INFO: Locate any fuel shut off valve and make sure it is turned on. Look for an in-line fuel strainer and determine if it might be restricting the fuel flow. If it has a sediment bowl on the fuel shutoff valve at the bottom of the tank the filter screen inside it might be plugged from evaporated fuel or debris. Remove the bowl and clean all the parts, you'll probably need a new gasket as the old ones don't seal very well when reused. Good Luck. :hattip:

Greeny
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Greeny » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:30 pm

Generator. Fuel valve open, sediment bowl pulled, cleaned, filter & seal are good. Pulled plug on bottom of carb, let new fuel flow out. New wiring harness with parts. Everything but spark plug tips looked new. We shined up the plugs and hit everything up. It's run for 10-30 seconds with the choke nearly closed. It's looking like a carb problem at this point.

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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby tst » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:56 pm

lack of fuel to the carb? make sure it has a steady stream from the gas line

staninlowerAL
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:31 pm

Not usually a problem but since you probably don't know the history of the tractor, there could be a leaky intake manifold gasket which will affect the vacuum to pull the fuel into the cylinders. Your description really sounds like the engine is running until it uses up the fuel in the carb bowl the stops from lack of fuel (like tst said). Waiting until the bowl fills up again and start back up? Also only running with the choke almost closed is another sign that it's starving for fuel.

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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:30 pm

Greeny wrote:. . . What is that mechanism above the steering wheel? Some sort of timing advance?


If we are looking at an essentially stock H, the only thing near that location is the speed control. If you don't pull that back part way, a cold engine probably won't keep running.

Greeny
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Greeny » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:51 pm

Well, I got it running and took it for a short spin up the street. The 1st snag we ran into earlier is the kill switch located on the lower right, near the brake. It say "In- stop \ Out- Run" well.... it's the opposite. I don't know if it's because it's wired wrong or the funky + ground set-up, but easy enough to work around. The choke needs to be about 7/8th closed. I fiddled with the adjustment screws on the carb for quite a while and found a happy spot where she'd fire up and run. It's not right, and it'll need a lot of TLC, but it was a steal of a deal. I'll post some more pics tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help! I am a NEWB to all this.
[img]
Red.jpg
[/img]
Attachments
Red.jpg

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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:33 pm

Wrong switch. You need a magneto grounding switch, have a battery ignition switch.

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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:58 am

Nice looking tractor, congrats on your purchase. From the picture it looks like a standard mag ignition with an internal coil under the black cap. If this is correct, the magneto ignition is totally independent of the battery and charging system and produces the necessary current to operate the engine. The battery is only used to power the starter and the charging system is for lights, aux equipment and to keep the battery charged.

Greeny
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Greeny » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:47 pm

Here are some more pics. I looks like Steiner.com produces copies of original operating and service manuals. Unless someone presents better options, I'll be ordering each of those.
Here's a pic of the controls. The ammeter reads about 3 amps when running. I have no idea what the ODB switch does, except for B which turns on the 2 driving lights. The little spinning lever opens up fans in front of the radiator that are seized up and will need to be addressed.
Controls.jpg

This shows the switch and unknown lever tucked up under the gas tank going down into the case.
kill switc, unknown lever.jpg

These pics show the speed control/spark advance/turbo engage?? lever in front of the steering wheel. It runs to a bracket above the exhaust manifold that has another rod going down to the back of the governor.
unknown control.jpg

control linkage.jpg

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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:15 pm

Greeny wrote:Here are some more pics. I looks like Steiner.com produces copies of original operating and service manuals. Unless someone presents better options, I'll be ordering each of those.

Binder Books.
Greeny wrote:I have no idea what the ODB switch does, except for B which turns on the 2 driving lights.

Off, Dim, Bright. Is it a 4 position switch?
Greeny wrote: unknown lever tucked up under the gas tank going down into the case.

Belt pulley engagement.
Greeny wrote:These pics show the speed control/spark advance/turbo engage??

Governor (speed) control, as already stated.

staninlowerAL
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
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Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:18 pm

1st pict--the rotating switch marked ODB probably controls the generator charging rate/lights if it's like a Cub. The lever that controls the shutters in front of the radiator controls the engine operating temperature. Might not have a thermostat. 2nd pict--kill switch for the magneto, as Jim Becker mentioned, it grounds the magneto output to stop the engine. 3rd pict--also as Jim stated is the speed control. It works by controlling the position of the governor counterweights thus calling for more or less fuel from the carb throttle position to control the engine rpm.

Greeny
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby Greeny » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:25 pm

Thanks for the useful info all! This city slicker appreciates it. There sure are a lot of manuals for the tractor. I think I'll snag the Operator, Service guide for starters and possibly Clutch, but hold off on the others for now.

It's a 3 position switch. The lights are only on at B and don't dim- mis-wired switch or wrong lights? Either way, it's at bottom of my list of concerns at this point.

I'll definitely address the radiator shutters first as the engine was running hot. We didn't notice the closed fins until after the short trip. Once I get that functioning, I'll address the carb/fuel issue(s). It runs and I can move it around which is the most important thing at this point.

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: 1941 model H not firing in Pocatell, ID

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:40 pm

Looking at the pictures, I think I see a vacant hole in the hood a little ways ahead of the gas tank. that combined with the shutter crank and the shape of your manifold make me believe it was originally a dual fuel tractor, that started on gasoline in a small tank where the hole in the hood is, and when warmed up, changed over to distillate or kerosene in the main tank, which required readjusting the carburetor, and adjusting the shutters to compensate for light loads that didn't keep the engine hot.

The thermostat is in the housing where the coolant leaves the tractor going to the radiator. Running on gasoline the shutters should be wide open.

Original light switch would have had L H D B. Yours may have been replaced. Running on 12 volts the resister that is switched in for Dim may not have a big effect.
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