Cub vs A/140 debate

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Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby BullDAWG » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:59 am

I've heard that the cub was the longest production tractor, but I disagree. The Farmall A-140 was longer. Then I hear well they changed the name from A to Super A then 100-130 and 140. Well if you want to go there then actually the cub has had 3 names too. It started as the Farmall Cub, then it was called international cub and forgot the name when it then had 15 hp c-60 but then you can't say it was just 1 name. Then I hear well the A didn't have hydraulics, well the 1947 cub didn't either. Then they say well the A- 140 had different parts, though you can swap all parts. Well the cub also had different breaks, the pistons were made from both aluminum and iron over the years, the cams were changed, different ignition over the years. The list goes on n on so why do cubites refuse to give credit to the REAL longest production tractor, the Farmall A-140... Now I'll say the cub was #2 and no other manufacturer back in the day could compete with Farmall/IH... But let the debate on cub vs A's begin. :tractor: :tractor:
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby Crimson Tim » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:43 am

I certainly can’t claim to be an expert, but a quick perusal of TractorData provides the following insights:

Cubs ran from 1947 to 1979, so 32 years. Yes, they changed from Farmall to International, and changed colors and went from round hoods to square hoods, but they maintained sequential serial numbers throughout.

The A started in 1939 and the 140 ended in 1973, for 34 years. The changes through that time appear to be mostly cosmetic, but apparently not. The engine displacement changed from 1.9L to 2.0L with the 100, and I think more importantly, Farmall/IH restarted the serial numbers back at 501 for the 100, 130 and again for the 140 rather than keeping them sequential right through all those models. That tells me Farmall at least considered them different models rather than an evolution of the same model. The changes between these models must have been more than skin deep.

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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby radioguy41 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:14 am

While the prefix did change the actual model name, "Cub" did not. On the other hand the name(s) of the A-140 changed several times along with the serial numbers restarting. No contest, Cub wins. :beer:
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby Super A » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Longest design would be a better way to put it. The A started in 1939, became the Super A in 1947, the Super A-1 in 1954, 100 in 1954, 130 in 1956, and 140 in 1958, ending in 1979. There are some significant changes in there, IMO the biggest were the changes to the torque tube to first allow electric start, and then to accommodate the touch control, but you can pretty much bolt together most any combo of components and make a frankentractor.in any case if you look at it that way the A series wins.

John Deere claims their Model D was the longest production tractor model, but an early D is a much different animal than the last polroduction Ds.

Al
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby BullDAWG » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:57 pm

Super A wrote:Longest design would be a better way to put it. The A started in 1939, became the Super A in 1947, the Super A-1 in 1954, 100 in 1954, 130 in 1956, and 140 in 1958, ending in 1979. There are some significant changes in there, IMO the biggest were the changes to the torque tube to first allow electric start, and then to accommodate the touch control, but you can pretty much bolt together most any combo of components and make a frankentractor.in any case if you look at it that way the A series wins.

John Deere claims their Model D was the longest production tractor model, but an early D is a much different animal than the last polroduction Ds.

Al

Al, according to tractor data the specs on JD D's says it was made from 1923 to 1953 so they loose. Your point on the A not having electric start is correct but didn't the cub also NOT have electric start in the 40's ALSO I've heard that the early Cubs torque tubes DIDN'T have any provisions for the hydraulics. So again I still say the A wins this debate. I concede that the cub serial number were consecutive but the overall design of each remained the same. Just like the cub early versions both the A and Cubs can be pieced together to modernize them. But the SA-1's had the same engines as the later 100-140's and if you read the IH directives the cub was changed to the IH name because farmers didn't buy them anymore (very small #) and they too had body mods changing from round fronts to the square hoods. Why IH changed serial # on the 100 but not the cub is a mistery. But at least the A's remained Farmall unlike the cub
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby Shane Nelson » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:47 pm

BullDAWG wrote:
Super A wrote:Longest design would be a better way to put it. The A started in 1939, became the Super A in 1947, the Super A-1 in 1954, 100 in 1954, 130 in 1956, and 140 in 1958, ending in 1979. There are some significant changes in there, IMO the biggest were the changes to the torque tube to first allow electric start, and then to accommodate the touch control, but you can pretty much bolt together most any combo of components and make a frankentractor.in any case if you look at it that way the A series wins.

John Deere claims their Model D was the longest production tractor model, but an early D is a much different animal than the last polroduction Ds.

Al

Al, according to tractor data the specs on JD D's says it was made from 1923 to 1953 so they loose. Your point on the A not having electric start is correct but didn't the cub also NOT have electric start in the 40's ALSO I've heard that the early Cubs torque tubes DIDN'T have any provisions for the hydraulics. So again I still say the A wins this debate. I concede that the cub serial number were consecutive but the overall design of each remained the same. Just like the cub early versions both the A and Cubs can be pieced together to modernize them. But the SA-1's had the same engines as the later 100-140's and if you read the IH directives the cub was changed to the IH name because farmers didn't buy them anymore (very small #) and they too had body mods changing from round fronts to the square hoods. Why IH changed serial # on the 100 but not the cub is a mistery. But at least the A's remained Farmall unlike the cub

I don’t think Al is claiming a John Deere D is the longest running model produced, I think he is saying John Deere says it’s their longest running model produced, which is true. The early D’s were steel wheeled, hand crank & unstyled. The late D’s were rubber tired, electric start & styled, so they changed like everything else.

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM24288 First cub produced, you can see electric starter.

We have the 947th Cub built and the torque tube was ready for the TC, which I added and the torque tube is the correct early “Q” casting.
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby tmays » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:14 pm

I’d say Cub wins since serial numbers were consecutive. Doesn’t really matter what we think as far as changes in models. IH(Farmall) were the experts/owners and thought the changes in A-140 models warranted a serial number change
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby Indy4570 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:22 am

my 140 is not a farmall ;)
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby BullDAWG » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:01 pm

About to really stir up a hornet's nest, without the A-140 there wouldn't be a cub. All it is, is a 2/3 version of an A-140. The cub looked at momma bear and said, when I grow up I want to have front and rear hydraulics and be able to pull more than a 1 bottom plow. Momma bear said, keep going over n the garden eating them greens and you one day will grow and have a 123 engine and dual hydraulics and be strong enough to handle a 1000 loader, a 2 bottom plow...

60 years later the cub still wants to grow up and be like the A-140. But alas he realized that though his design was a shrunken copy of the A-140 and his design wasn't made as long as the A-140, he was happy that he was #2... Only time he didn't like #2 was when it was pulling a 100 spreader. But that my friends is another story about a cub...
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby Shane Nelson » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:30 pm

BullDAWG wrote:About to really stir up a hornet's nest, without the A-140 there wouldn't be a cub. All it is, is a 2/3 version of an A-140. The cub looked at momma bear and said, when I grow up I want to have front and rear hydraulics and be able to pull more than a 1 bottom plow. Momma bear said, keep going over n the garden eating them greens and you one day will grow and have a 123 engine and dual hydraulics and be strong enough to handle a 1000 loader, a 2 bottom plow...

60 years later the cub still wants to grow up and be like the A-140. But alas he realized that though his design was a shrunken copy of the A-140 and his design wasn't made as long as the A-140, he was happy that he was #2... Only time he didn't like #2 was when it was pulling a 100 spreader. But that my friends is another story about a cub...

How much did a Super A-140 cost new? How much did a Cub cost new? They both were made for specific targets, different sized farms.

We have 2 Cubs and a 140. The Cub gets used more than the 140 right now, they both do the job but sometimes it’s easier to use the cub for task although front and rear hydraulics are nice, they both had and still have their place.
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1950 cub-193 1 furrow SWPC plow (cub)
5' home made bush hog mounts on drawbar
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby BullDAWG » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:49 pm

Agreed, and you can easily fix the dual hydraulics by adding a manual lift on the cub to lift smaller things easily like rear cultivators so at the end of a row hit the hydraulics to lift the front cultivators then a second later lift the rear cultivators with the manual lift when they get to end of the row. I luv Cubs. They do better in some jobs (mostly cultivating), but other things like subsoilers, middle buster, disking, front end loaders and turning plows the cub can't compete. Not saying the A-140 is the best either. But at least here Cubs cost the same as a Super A. If I have a choice and they cost the same and come with same options and implements I'll take a Super A, 100, 130 or 140 every time before I'll buy a cub.
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby Super A » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:43 pm

Shane Nelson wrote:
BullDAWG wrote:
Super A wrote:Longest design would be a better way to put it. The A started in 1939, became the Super A in 1947, the Super A-1 in 1954, 100 in 1954, 130 in 1956, and 140 in 1958, ending in 1979. There are some significant changes in there, IMO the biggest were the changes to the torque tube to first allow electric start, and then to accommodate the touch control, but you can pretty much bolt together most any combo of components and make a frankentractor.in any case if you look at it that way the A series wins.

John Deere claims their Model D was the longest production tractor model, but an early D is a much different animal than the last polroduction Ds.

Al

Al, according to tractor data the specs on JD D's says it was made from 1923 to 1953 so they loose. Your point on the A not having electric start is correct but didn't the cub also NOT have electric start in the 40's ALSO I've heard that the early Cubs torque tubes DIDN'T have any provisions for the hydraulics. So again I still say the A wins this debate. I concede that the cub serial number were consecutive but the overall design of each remained the same. Just like the cub early versions both the A and Cubs can be pieced together to modernize them. But the SA-1's had the same engines as the later 100-140's and if you read the IH directives the cub was changed to the IH name because farmers didn't buy them anymore (very small #) and they too had body mods changing from round fronts to the square hoods. Why IH changed serial # on the 100 but not the cub is a mistery. But at least the A's remained Farmall unlike the cub

I don’t think Al is claiming a John Deere D is the longest running model produced, I think he is saying John Deere says it’s their longest running model produced, which is true. The early D’s were steel wheeled, hand crank & unstyled. The late D’s were rubber tired, electric start & styled, so they changed like everything else.

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM24288 First cub produced, you can see electric starter.

We have the 947th Cub built and the torque tube was ready for the TC, which I added and the torque tube is the correct early “Q” casting.


Correct. JD claims the D as the longest running tractor model, but late Ds are vastly different than early ones. They might as well called the 4020 a D, they would have had a really long run!

And all Cubs had provision for starters and touch control. Cub # 501 had TC added later in its life.

Al
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:16 am

My understanding was that the A and it's variants had the longest run year wise, but the cub sold more tractors by numbers.

They did an informal survey on Yesterdays Tractors a few years ago, and when the final results were in, the cub was the 8th most popular tractor in the U.S. according to number sold. The H and M were the only models in the Farmall line ahead of it.
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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby jsfarmall » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:49 pm

When it comes to production numbers I believe the number 1 most tractors built we're 8n Ford's then 2nd most mass produced is H Farmall. According tractor data.com

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Re: Cub vs A/140 debate

Postby Super A » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:47 pm

jsfarmall wrote:When it comes to production numbers I believe the number 1 most tractors built we're 8n Ford's then 2nd most mass produced is H Farmall. According tractor data.com


Probably is the 8N overall. (Which is a crying shame....)

Al
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