Exhaust question

Farmall H, HV & Super H, 300 & 350, 1939-1958

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Jim in SC
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 am
Zip Code: 29527
Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall H (SN FBH 366519)
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1999 John Deere LT155
2018 Husqvarna YTH18542
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Conway, South Carolina

Exhaust question

Postby Jim in SC » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:32 pm

Slowly working on the refresh on my '51 H and I have a question. As long as I had the carb off, I thought I might as well remove the manifold and get the manifold heat control valve and shaft "unstuck". This is a distillate model tractor. I got the manifold off fine and was able to loosen the control valve by lightly tapping it about a hundred times - it finally came loose and works fine now, although I had to drill out the set screw and replace it. I was also able to remove the nuts holding the exhaust pipe on - amazingly, I did not break the studs, however they could both stand to be replaced. Here's my question: does anyone know the size of the studs? Case/IH lists one for sale without giving the thread size and they want WAY too much $$$ for it. I figure I can get one at Autozone for cheaper, but need the size.

An interesting find when I got the exhaust pipe off - I dug around inside the bottom of the manifold with a long, skinny screwdriver and got probably a pound of dirt out of it. Also, the heat control valve "butterfly" had been stuck almost closed, probably for years. I'm amazed the the engine ran with all that increased back pressure. Pics are attached.
Attachments
IMG_20190109_115656355.jpg
Stud openings in the pipe
IMG_20190109_115709422.jpg
Exhaust pipe
IMG_20190109_113855246.jpg
The dirt I got out of the manifold
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Sir Winston Churchill / George Orwell.
1951 Farmall H
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1998 John Deere LT 155
2018 Husqvarna

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13863
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:00 am

Not sure how the valve was closed, all it should do is redirect flow through the intake or not, depending on the position. Don't know the size of the studs but the book says the nut is 7/16 NC.

Jim in SC
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 am
Zip Code: 29527
Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall H (SN FBH 366519)
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1999 John Deere LT155
2018 Husqvarna YTH18542
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Conway, South Carolina

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim in SC » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:27 am

Jim, the valve was stuck in the bottom notch on the side of the manifold, which is the closed position (I believe that was to aid starting with kerosene - I'll have to check my manual, which is in the barn right now). I agree on the nut size, that should be an easy fix at the hardware store. i'm hesitant on trying to remove the studs though, unless I have a replacement in hand. The old ones will work, but one of them is badly corroded where it enters the manifold. Sure wish I knew the thread of the part that is seized up in the manifold! Another question: would those lower stud threads be left or right threads?

I can't figure how all that dirt got in the manifold unless the exhaust wasn't covered when the engine was off. At any rate, it should breathe a lot better cleaned out!

Thanks for your reply!
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Sir Winston Churchill / George Orwell.
1951 Farmall H
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1998 John Deere LT 155
2018 Husqvarna

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13863
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Maybe this diagram will help. It is from some F-20 material, but the idea is the same. Illustration 1 is in the hot position, where yours was evidently left. The valve isn't "closed", the exhaust is redirected through a longer path. If you are familiar with the "heat riser valve" used in carbureted auto engines, this is exactly the same.

The thread in the manifold for your rusted studs is right handed coarse thread.

HotManifoldValveF20.jpg

Jim in SC
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 am
Zip Code: 29527
Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall H (SN FBH 366519)
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1999 John Deere LT155
2018 Husqvarna YTH18542
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Conway, South Carolina

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim in SC » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:19 pm

Very interesting, Jim - thank you. I learn something new every day! The updraft carburetor is truly simple and ingenious.

Now the crusted up dirt at the bottom of the manifold - hmmmm - now that couldn't be good!

Jim
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Sir Winston Churchill / George Orwell.
1951 Farmall H
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1998 John Deere LT 155
2018 Husqvarna

User avatar
NavyBM
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:53 am
Zip Code: 02825
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1946 Farmall H
1935 John Deere BN
1951 John Deere G
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Foster, Rhode Island

Re: Exhaust question

Postby NavyBM » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Wow, I have never seen something like that. I am surprised it was able to stay running. When I restored mine the amount of rust in the manifold and check valve wasn't even worth trying to save and refurbish.
I am as bad as the worst, but, thank God, I am as good as the best.
Image
Circle of Safety

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 3691
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Exhaust question

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:41 pm

Jim, I may be way off base but the manifold studs from the auto parts are usually nc on one end and nf on the other end. One possible approach is to see if the CIH has one on hand that you could look at. Auto parts usually sells them for about 3 or 4 dollars.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13863
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:07 pm

True, manifold studs are usually NC/NF. Usually the NC end has shorter threads that are screwed into the block/head/whatever and a NF nut is screwed on the longer end to complete the assembly. Studs are also made with a single NC thread the whole length. Some of the automotive studs are NC/NF packaged with a nut for each end. Then you can use them whichever way they fit.

Jim in SC
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 am
Zip Code: 29527
Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall H (SN FBH 366519)
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1999 John Deere LT155
2018 Husqvarna YTH18542
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Conway, South Carolina

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim in SC » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:32 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:Jim, I may be way off base but the manifold studs from the auto parts are usually nc on one end and nf on the other end. One possible approach is to see if the CIH has one on hand that you could look at. Auto parts usually sells them for about 3 or 4 dollars.



Thanks to you and to Jim. I've been soaking the studs now for over a week in PB Blaster, plus hitting them with heat and then an ice cube, and double nutting them. No movement on the studs. At this point I'm afraid I might crack the cast iron manifold and since it's a distillate manifold, I don't want to chance that, so I've decided to live with the studs as is. They aren't great, but I can still get nuts on them if I use a washer. If they ever strip the threads, I'll drill them out. Not now though.

On to the carb and governor now. :)
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Sir Winston Churchill / George Orwell.
1951 Farmall H
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1998 John Deere LT 155
2018 Husqvarna

Jim in SC
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 am
Zip Code: 29527
Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall H (SN FBH 366519)
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1999 John Deere LT155
2018 Husqvarna YTH18542
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Conway, South Carolina

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim in SC » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:43 pm

NavyBM wrote:Wow, I have never seen something like that. I am surprised it was able to stay running. When I restored mine the amount of rust in the manifold and check valve wasn't even worth trying to save and refurbish.


Hahahaha! Well, you see, that WAS the problem! It was running, but it started to run pretty rough, so I waded into it and - well - it's like renovating an old building, I'm finding out. That little rotten spot on the old building often turns out, once you get into it, to be not so little.

Same for old tractors. I'm now re-wiring the tractor, rebuilding the carb and distributor, working on the throttle shaft, and probably more as time goes on. But, heck, that's why I got the tractor in the first place! I like doing this stuff! :tractor:
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Sir Winston Churchill / George Orwell.
1951 Farmall H
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1998 John Deere LT 155
2018 Husqvarna

staninlowerAL
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 3691
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1)'52, (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (1)'72 154 Number Series Loboy, '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '53 MM BG (offset), (2) '49 Avery V's, '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76 Yanmar 1500, Sears Surburban's, MTD's, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Exhaust question

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:46 am

Jim in SC wrote:........that's why I got the tractor in the first place! I like doing this stuff! :tractor:
Sure beats sessions with a psychiatrist and a lot less expensive. :surrender: :lol: :hattip: :tractor:

Jim in SC
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 am
Zip Code: 29527
Tractors Owned: 1951 Farmall H (SN FBH 366519)
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1999 John Deere LT155
2018 Husqvarna YTH18542
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Conway, South Carolina

Re: Exhaust question

Postby Jim in SC » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:35 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:
Jim in SC wrote:........that's why I got the tractor in the first place! I like doing this stuff! :tractor:
Sure beats sessions with a psychiatrist and a lot less expensive. :surrender: :lol: :hattip: :tractor:


Very true, but I'm not real sure about the less expensive part!
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Sir Winston Churchill / George Orwell.
1951 Farmall H
1969 IH Cub Cadet 106
1998 John Deere LT 155
2018 Husqvarna


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Farmall H, HV, Super H, 300 & 350”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests