i did a check on head bolt torque

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ad356
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i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby ad356 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:46 pm

i took took the gas tank/hood off today and i checked the torque on my head bolts. several of them were a fair amount under spec of 45 FT/LBS. i know that you guys said that i most likely do not have antifreeze in my oil but i thought it was a good preventable measure and it surely did not hurt anything doing this. i also ran the tractor quite a bit and everything seems ok. i also re-examined the oil that came out of the tractor and it didnt really seem to have much mily appearance. i probably had a little condensation and i freaked out, im pretty anal about the maintenance of my tractor. i want to get many, many years out of my tractor until the day comes that i have to do an overhaul. would be nice to get another 20 years out of this engine before anything major has to be done to it, hopefully parts will still be available in another 20-30 years when i am an old man... lol. as long as im still healthy i would do the work myself and if i wasnt capable anymore i would pay someone, lol. im only 31 years old so hopefully i have a long way to go before i get to that stage in my life. sometimes im a little more anal with my tractor then i need to be, but that diligence is what is going to make it last.

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby Rudi » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:18 am

Depending on the condition of the mill at the present time, good maintenance practices and proper fluids will extend the life of your Cub's mill for many years. You just may get another 20 years out of it before you have to rebuild.

ad356 wrote:hopefully parts will still be available in another 20-30 years when i am an old man... lol.
...

Hmmm.... I think I resemble that -- I am 58 and do not consider myself an old man -- a little crispy around the edges but not that old :wink: :lol: And yeah, it still seems like only yesterday when I was 31 and a father of 2 ... :shock:
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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby PaulBernier 86662 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:28 pm

Shucks, I didn't get my cub (first tractor) until I was more than 60. Now that it's overhauled and restored, I'm hoping I could get the next 20-30 years out of it.
1949 cub (sexy-sadie), 193 moldboard plow, w/notched colter, planet Jr's. By Paul

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby ntrenn » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:39 pm

We've had the red cub since about 1969 and it survived me as a teenager, hayrides, mowing hillsides, plowing garden, and hilling sweet potatoes with a layoff plow. It still mows grass every week in season and did a fine job pulling the Woods 59 this summer, even at its advanced age of 49. It's never been overhauled or restored.

With proper maintenance, you should be able to get at least 20 years of modern use out of it, if not another 30 or 40 years. At that point, you may only need to re-ring and go.
The loboy was USED when I got it, and even with all it had been through, a set of rings, hone job, valve grind and it's back running - even though it has 0.002 wrist pin clearance, the knock is barely audible when cold. Amazing what these little tractors will endure and still keep kicking....

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:39 pm

Rudi wrote:Depending on the condition of the mill at the present time, good maintenance practices and proper fluids will extend the life of your Cub's mill for many years. You just may get another 20 years out of it before you have to rebuild.

ad356 wrote:hopefully parts will still be available in another 20-30 years when i am an old man... lol.
...

Hmmm.... I think I resemble that -- I am 58 and do not consider myself an old man -- a little crispy around the edges but not that old :wink: :lol: And yeah, it still seems like only yesterday when I was 31 and a father of 2 ... :shock:

Rudi, admit it! You're OLD! (You know how they say, "it takes one, to know one", I'm one, so I KNOW! Ed
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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby lazyuniondriver » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:31 pm

ntrenn wrote: it survived me as a teenager


For as well built and as long as these Cubs have survived, you would have thought IHC had a group of teenagers on the R&D team.

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby Scrivet » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:08 pm

ntrenn wrote:.............. even at its advanced age of 49.....
Hey.......wait a minute........I'm 49. I don't consider it an advanced age. When I was 20, yeah 50 was ancient. But now that I'm 49, 50 isn't that old at all. :D

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:15 pm

Scrivet wrote:When I was 20, yeah 50 was ancient. But now that I'm 49, 50 isn't that old at all. :D

Old is twice your own age. When you can't find anyone twice as old, you are old.

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby ad356 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:29 pm

so are there still going to be parts available for these tractors 20-30 years from now to do rebuilds? i hope so, they seem to be a popular enough tractor with no modern equivalents. sure you can buy a sub compact but they are built nowhere near as well and they cost allot of money. a cub will do the same job with allot less money spent, and the cub will outlast it by far, if you take care of it. my wife was complaining about how much i spent on my cub and i laughed, i told her that she wont be complaining when i still have it 20+ years from now. i was wondering, it seems like no longer produced parts include the starter and the generator. how do you deal with some parts that are no longer made?

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby beaconlight » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:33 pm

Jim Becker Twice as old doesn't work so well for me. At 80 there are no 160 years old to compare to.
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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:14 pm

beaconlight wrote:Jim Becker Twice as old doesn't work so well for me. At 80 there are no 160 years old to compare to.

The conclusion is obvious.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/05/besse-cooper-worlds-oldest-person-dies-at-age-116/

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby beaconlight » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:01 pm

Yes I read that in this mornings paper and was thinking about the story as i tongue in cheek commented. I only hope for 108 so the record is safe. All my life i had hoped to live 10 years longer than my dad. A while after he had passed on I commented to a friend of his in Chinatown NY that I had hoped for 10 years more than dad. Peter Eng jumped up and down, shook me and stated that was no good. I said Peter why not. He answered that 108 was a good number in Chinese. Immediately that became my new goal.

Edited to add.

Seriously checking the head bolts is a very good thing but remember that the bolts will not be a tight as they were at that torque as they were when the bolts nice and clean when originally installed
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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby ntrenn » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:46 pm

I've read this 2 or 3 times and I really have to disagree with people just going out and checking head bolt torque.

As stated earlier, 45-50 as called out in the Blue Ribbon Service Manual is really high for a standard 3/8-16 bolt. Standard Grade 8 torque is 36/43 ft-lbs. At the upper limit, the bolts are at about 100,000 psi tensile stress and are clamping with about 8000 lbs/bolt.

1. Based on the installation in the C60 engine, most of the bolts are wet. Proper installation in this type of application is to use thread sealant. Retorquing bolts after the sealant has set defeats the purpose of the sealant and can result in water leaks into the bolt shank area which will corrode the bolt and possibly cause disassembly issues in the future. These are a nightmare to fix as anybody knows that has ever fixed one.
2. Depending on the sealant used, the breakaway torque may be considerably higher or lower than 45 ft-lbs, so retorquing may not correct a perceived undertorque condition as its prevailing torque may inhibit the movement of a bolt that has excessively relaxed.
3. The head bolt system is designed with a grip length that is stretched when the bolt is torqued. It is designed to relax and flex with changes in temperature and with age. Just because the torque has dropped does not mean that the system is not working correctly. The old flathead Fords had a retorque requirement after an initial heat cycle, but I do not see IHC calling for a retorque. More than a few of us have had 8N's blow a second head gasket because we forgot to retorque.
4. Just because the head bolts may have relaxed a few ft-lb does not mean that a blown head gasket is impending. With the steel/fiber gasket, some relaxation is expected.

My vote - if it's not leaking, leave them be.

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby bob in CT » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:59 am

I would only re-torque a Cub head gasket after a new gasket is installed. After that, I would leave it alone.

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Re: i did a check on head bolt torque

Postby Rudi » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:31 pm

bob in CT wrote:I would only re-torque a Cub head gasket after a new gasket is installed. After that, I would leave it alone.


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