C60

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C60

Postby Philo » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:39 am

I have a '48 FCub with carbon problems, and I plan on pulling the head and going over the valves. I could not answer the first question the counter man asked - Is it a C60? What is the C60, and how do I know if mine is a C60? If it isn't, how can I identify the engine if there were options in '48? Note, I have been around tractors very little. My dad had an "H" when I was 10 years old, and I have driven Ford 8n's and a CO-OP. That's it. But I know from my other mechanical experience that I can repair this problem and get it working properly again.

Thank you for helping me.
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Postby Scott » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:42 am

C60 is the displacement of cub engine. 60 cubic inches. If it is a cub a lo-boy or a cub power unit it is a c60
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Postby Bigdog » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:42 am

He was referring to the engine identification - C 60. Your 48 cub has a C-60 engine. So you can go back to him and tell him it is. (there were no options)
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Postby Rudi » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:00 pm

Philo:

Welcome to the Cub family :!: :D

Have a read with the stuff below. It will provide you with a lot of info on Cubs, and certainly will help you out a lot. If you have a look at the Parts Manuals you will be able to actually give him the part numbers of the parts you need. Hope this helps.


First, welcome to the greatest forum on the internet, and to the Cub Family. You will find that all the folks on this forum are kind, helpful and just full of Cub info and knowledge. They also happen to be the finest folks I have ever met :!: :D

Ok, so here is the spiel.

I would suggest that you read this thread: New Members and Visitors, Please READ. There are many great links to informative pages such as the ATIS FAQ's (both 1 and 2), The Best of H.L. Chauvin who has written very interesting articles on troubleshooting common problems with your Cub.


Also, you might want to visit the Cub Manual Server as there is tons of info on servicing, maintaining and re-building your Cub.

I would also recommend that you visit Binder Books and purchase the Owner's Manual, the GSS-1411 Service Manual and the TC-37F Parts Manual. Although they are available on the server, it is better is you also have your own paper copy. Binder Books is the only licensed IH publication reprint shop and they have the best quality.

I truly hope that you enjoy your Cub and that you will be a frequent contributor to the forum. Again, welcome to the Cub Family :D
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Postby Arizona Mike » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:18 pm

Philo..welcome to a great website. You may want to get a manual, or look at Rudi's wide collection of Cub imanuals at http://www.cleancomputes.com.Cub.index.html


Would be interested to hear about what you think of the C60's performance when you get it running the way you want....compared to them Fords :?: :)
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Postby Philo » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:55 pm

Thank you all very much for your responses and helpful information. I was hoping the engine ID/type would be that simple.

Also, thank you for the welcome to your site. I have looked around some, and was able to ID my tractor as a '48. I will be doing more looking now that I am getting underway soon on the carbon problem.

I bought the Cub about three years ago on a whim. The owner (husband of a friend of my wife's) could not get it started. I told him that if I could get it started and it ran OK I would buy it. I needed a little more pulling power than my Cub Cadet 1450 could muster, to drag some logs and pull a trailer around my small place (six acres). I don't use it a lot, but it finally got carboned up enough that the starting got more and more difficult and finally I gave up - knowing I would have to open it up.

I know the answer to the Ford -vs- IH already. Although I have only owned one tractor (the Cub) and have only operated a few types, I always liked IH better for some reason. They seemed to have more status I guess. Oh, wait, I have driven a WFE Super C many times. A farmer across the road from where I lived as a kid hired me to do all kinds of stuff around the farm, and driving the S/C was part of it.
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Postby johnbron » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:07 pm

Philo wrote: I don't use it a lot, but it finally got carboned up enough that the starting got more and more difficult and finally I gave up - knowing I would have to open it up.


Just a thought, Have you thought about using "Seafoam" first for decarbonizing before opening up the engine. Lotta folks on this and other boards swear by Seafoam as a decarbonizer for badly gunked engines.
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Postby Eugene » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:59 pm

Philo:

1) Tune up. How long has it been since the Cub was given a complete tune up? Perhaps all you need is a new set of plugs, points, condensor and the engine retimed - maybe a distributor cap and rotor.

2) A tune up and some Seafoam will improve the engines performance - may not solve all of the problems. Before you tear into the engine do the tune up and Seafoam, then do a compression check.

3) How long has it been since the air cleaner was service and cleaned?

My Thoughts.

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Postby Philo » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:45 pm

Eugene wrote:Philo:

1) Tune up. How long has it been since the Cub was given a complete tune up? Perhaps all you need is a new set of plugs, points, condensor and the engine retimed - maybe a distributor cap and rotor.

2) A tune up and some Seafoam will improve the engines performance - may not solve all of the problems. Before you tear into the engine do the tune up and Seafoam, then do a compression check.

3) How long has it been since the air cleaner was service and cleaned?

My Thoughts.

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Before I got it - who knows. It ran very well at first - I was pleased with the performance, but it was smoking slightly. I set the timing, checked the points, cap and plugs. (all this when I first got it running before I bought it, and/or just after getting it home) All parts looked acceptable then and now, and I am getting a good spark. I have not checked the compression because I am quite sure there is none or very little caused by the valves not closing completely. I also checked the air cleaner and serviced it according to the manual.

I'll give the SeaFoam a try and see what happens. Since I cannot get it running (SeaFoam says apply with engine running if possible), I suppose the next best thing is to pour it into the spark plug holes and let it work it's way down. If I turn the engine with the crank that should help it circulate and work on the carbon. Assuming it will all drain into the oil pan, I'll change the oil after the treatment. How long would you say the treatment should be left in the engine using this method? If all this works, then to keep the engine clean, do you recommend adding it to the fuel on each fillup or just on occasion?

Thanks so much. I really appreciate your quick responses.
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Postby Eugene » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:03 pm

Interesting.

You might pull the side cover (valve cover) and see if some of the valves are stuck open. If one or more are stuck open. Seafoam as you described. Also spray solvent on the valve stems. Let soak then gently tap on the valve stem, soak, tap. Until they come loose - may take days.

Also, with the hood/gas tank removed you can see the edge of one of the valves when you look into the spark plug hole. If this valve is stuck you can soak, then tap on the top of the valve to free it up.

More thinking out loud.

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Postby Philo » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:09 pm

Eugene wrote:Interesting.

You might pull the side cover (valve cover) and see if some of the valves are stuck open. If one or more are stuck open. Seafoam as you described. Also spray solvent on the valve stems. Let soak then gently tap on the valve stem, soak, tap. Until they come loose - may take days.

Also, with the hood/gas tank removed you can see the edge of one of the valves when you look into the spark plug hole. If this valve is stuck you can soak, then tap on the top of the valve to free it up.

More thinking out loud.

Eugene


I have pulled the side cover, and almost all of the valves were partially stuck in the valve guides. I used a lot of "solvent" (I was not sure what to use, so I used Marvel Mystery Oil) and they are loose now, but do not come completely closed. This is when I decided there was a lot of carbon on the valve heads, and it was time to pull the cylinder head.

When the carbon is removed, can it damage the engine if some gets into the valve mechanism (lifters)? How about the oil - Not all of the oil comes out when the oil is changed, especially when the oil is cold, so some carbon could remain. Or does the Seafoam dissolve it?
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Postby Eugene » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:31 am

Really interesting. If the valves will move some in their guides, I would keep applying the solvent on top of the piston and on the valve stems. Crank the engine over by hand several time a day. The carbon should dissolve enough to seat the valves.

When I purchased my Cub the valves were stuck. I filled the cylinders with WD40 (cause I had a gallon) until the WD40 ran out the carburator. Let set for a couple of days, tapped on the valves and they fully free up.

Most of the carbon will exit the engine out the exhaust when you get it running. As far as loose carbon in the valve train and other parts - I'd get the engine running - run the engine until it's up to temperature - 5 or 10 minutes - then change the oil.

These things are always fun. You never know what to expect.

Another thought, If I were going to pull the head to work on the valves, I would also do an in tractor/block overhaul - rings, check the rod and main inserts.

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