Switching ignition system

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Command52
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Switching ignition system

Postby Command52 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:21 pm

I posted earlier about magneto not having fire , I took it apart cleaned set points put back on the tractor following timing instructions and still no fire , It appears that these parts for this particular magneto are hard to find, I think I would like to switch it out for something easier to get parts for but would like to try to stay with something that should be on a 1950 ,I Don't mind a having a magneto just so I can find parts for it Thank You
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1950 cub maneto.jpg

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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby SONNY » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:51 pm

Your mag can be switched to external battery coil,---hide the coil up under hood and it still looks like regular mag. mine are like that. The coils in these don't last long. most sit out in the weather and it kills mags rather fast--next thing is to get dist. and go that route. some of mine have dist. and I much rather them as to the troublesome mags. ---Lastly get a reman. mag at cost of $500 to $650!---It boils down to personal preference as to what you want and how much you want to blow on the tractor! thanks; sonny

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Mike in Louisiana
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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby Mike in Louisiana » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:54 pm

I don't have a mag but i thought parts were available. Rick Spivey Cecil Diamond will probably chime in.
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inairam
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Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
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1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
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1979 long strip 12 v
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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby inairam » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:01 pm

The IH J-4 mag was more popular and parts are available. It that a Wico?

There is a place in Maine that rebuilds Wico mags say they do it on average for $125 plus shipping http://www.mainelymagnetos.com/
They also have j4 mag for sale $280-350 depending on if you have a trade-in.

I got a mag from this company http://www.rebuiltmags.com/stock.php and it looked and worked great for 4+ years and their prices are a bit better.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby Command52 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:29 pm

As i look I keep seeing H4 J4 Mags that appear to be for the cub but not sure what year or anything

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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby Bob McCarty » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:04 pm

PM Rick Spivey. He's the forum mag expert and may have a J-4 for sale.
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MiCarl
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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby MiCarl » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:13 pm

I did not read the other discussion so I don't know if this has been covered:

In your picture I see the jacket on the kill wire is shot. If that's grounded some place it will disable the spark.
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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby Glen » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:50 pm

Hi,
The IH J4 magneto was used on most of the Cubs that had a magneto, all Cubs had a magneto from 1947 - 1950, the Battery Ignition unit came out in 1950, at Cub serial number 115403. Then you could buy a new Cub with either unit, they offered the magneto also after that.

The H4 is not used on a Cub, it is for the larger IH tractors.

Here is a page from the Cub owner's manual showing a J4 magneto, and the ignition points in it.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2030.jpg

Here are pics from TM Tractor of a J4 magneto.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gel/j4mag_001.htm

The Battery Ignition unit is a more modern unit, and has a built in spark advance, like cars with distributors had in the past.
IH offered a kit years ago for converting Cubs with magnetos to Battery Ignition, after the Battery Ignition unit came out.
The majority of Cubs made after the Battery Ignition unit came out have it, as far as I have seen.
The Battery Ignition unit uses a different ignition switch than a magneto, and different wires, to run battery power to the Battery Ignition unit.
Below is a page from the Cub owner's manual showing a Battery Ignition unit.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2041.jpg

The Battery Ignition unit uses power from the battery, a magneto does not use power from the battery.

Below are pics of a Battery Ignition unit at TM Tractor. It does not have the coil in the pics.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gel ... or_001.htm

Both units use the same points and condenser, below is a listing from TM Tractor.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/367fp.htm

If the magneto you have grounds with the one wire to the ignition switch, and the insulation is gone from the wire, and the wire is grounding somewhere between the magneto and the switch, there won't be any spark.

If the ground wire is not shorting, and the ignition switch works right, and If the points are good, with clean, shiny surfaces, then the condenser or coil could be bad in the magneto.
Last edited by Glen on Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

inairam
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Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
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Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Switching ignition system

Postby inairam » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:00 pm

Command52 wrote:As i look I keep seeing H4 J4 Mags that appear to be for the cub but not sure what year or anything


According to the Cub database ( top of the forum) battery ignition became available in 1950 with tractor SN 115403. I do not think that means all tractors got battery ignition after that point like with other changes but was available as an option. I do not know when the mag was no longer available.

Battery Ignition Packages were offered so owners could retrofit so we can see the very early cubs with old battery ignition.

I think it is safe to say a PO probably did not convert it back mag so it probably came from the factory that way - or it came with an IH and the Wico was a replacement somewhere along the line.
Last edited by inairam on Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

inairam
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Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Switching ignition system

Postby inairam » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:06 pm

Glen - great minds think alike. You were just faster!
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby Glen » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:31 pm

Hi,
Hehe, looks like we posted some of the same info.

Yes, that looks like the Wico magneto, in the parts manual pic.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-24.jpg

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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby Rick Spivey » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:15 am

I rebuild J4 magnetos for forum members, at cost only. There's one in front of you, but I have enough cores to make up a rebuilt one. I would say typical costs when a member has their own core is between $100 and $150, the core typically costs around $50 if you shop around.

I personally run magnetos on all 3 of my cubs, and the H. I just don't always keep up the 6 volt batteries, and they don't tend to last long, so hand cranking is my best option. I also don't always stay on top of the charging system, either. A bit lazy perhaps, but with a magneto I don't have to. However, some forum members despise magnetos, and will opt for a battery ignition system. That's fine, as long as your charging system is kept operable.
Rick Spivey
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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby indy61 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:23 am

Command52 wrote: It appears that these parts for this particular magneto are hard to find,


Are you able to read the nameplate? I think the Cub may have used the WICO model X.
Image

Parts are available from Brillman, McDonald Carb & Ignition, Steiner and others.

https://brillman.com/product/wico-x-ser ... gneto-cap/
https://brillman.com/product/wico-distr ... point-set/
https://brillman.com/product/wico-x-ser ... condenser/
https://brillman.com/product/wico-serie ... neto-coil/

inairam
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Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Switching ignition system

Postby inairam » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:29 am

I could not find when mags were no longer available. Does anyone know when that happened?
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Switching ignition system

Postby Landreo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:49 am

The Wico Xh was a common magneto, I have several including a brand new one. Still being made. The XHD was used on several IHC tractors and will share most parts with the common Wico XH. If it works then I would just use the mag you have.


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