Why voltage regulators fail

[Gary S.]

I think DickB is on to something-The coils seemed fine, and that's all there is to the VRs. In the past I tried to save VRs, being accidentally on the right path, by dressing up the points.
I have a theory- it comes from trouble with ignition points. Years ago the contacts were solid,new points are plated - saving money. Maybe the voltage spikes are arcing the points damaging them? where as the older ones could handle those surges better?

[Jim Becker]

The voltage regulators IH used have what amounts to 2 coils below the voltage regulator contacts. It will limit both voltage and current. Details are in one of the documents in the PDF Manuals. I don't remember the title and am not going to look for it right now.

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

I did take electricity in high school, as well as electronics in college and made my living as an electronics technician. 25 years of which was spent working for the local phone company maintaining the offices, data circuits, and fiber equipment. Part of that 25 years we still had electro-mechanical (stepper) switches that were thousands and thousands of relays. In that time I learned that contacts become pitted from contamination such as dust or oil, even oil from hands. A second cause, and the most likely one in this case Is the relay being out of adjustment or the points not lining up correctly and wiping as the close. A third cause can be poor quality materials.

[TallCoolOne58]

The voltage regulators IH used have what amounts to 2 coils below the voltage regulator contacts. It will limit both voltage and current. Details are in one of the documents in the PDF Manuals. I don't remember the title and am not going to look for it right now.

I'd be interested in reading that, should you ever find it.

[Scrivet]

The voltage regulators IH used have what amounts to 2 coils below the voltage regulator contacts. It will limit both voltage and current. Details are in one of the documents in the PDF Manuals. I don't remember the title and am not going to look for it right now.

Are you thinking of GSS-1012 Electrical Equipment 4-27-55?
Manuals
Service Manuals
Blue Ribbon Service Manuals
GSS-1012 Electrical Equipment /// Current-Voltage Regulator Principles of Operation starts on page 20.

[Scrivet]

I did take electricity in high school,..............

Taught by Ben Franklin.

[DickB]

Replaceable points for the VR are not practical, as I see it. Sticking here with the USA made VR and the battery maintainer...I don't see a better choice.

Maybe Ben Franklin or John *.?-!.* or TooCoolOne58 can explain how those coils of wire (thin wire at core, heavy wire outside) pop those contacts up and down.

[Jim Becker]

The voltage regulators IH used have what amounts to 2 coils below the voltage regulator contacts. It will limit both voltage and current. Details are in one of the documents in the PDF Manuals. I don't remember the title and am not going to look for it right now.

Are you thinking of GSS-1012 Electrical Equipment 4-27-55?
Manuals
Service Manuals
Blue Ribbon Service Manuals
GSS-1012 Electrical Equipment /// Current-Voltage Regulator Principles of Operation starts on page 20.

I was actually thinking of GSS-1310 (about page 41) but I think GSS-1012 has the same explanation (or maybe a shorter version).

. . . Maybe Ben Franklin or John *.?-!.* or TooCoolOne58 can explain how those coils of wire (thin wire at core, heavy wire outside) pop those contacts up and down.

Either of the above sources.

[xraycajun]

I will soon experiment with Brillman's 6 volt positive ground alternator. My hope is that it will provide more reliable charging without having to reverse polarity or change to a 12 volt system. I will be taking pics through the entire procedure and I plan to post a thread on it. I couldn't find much on the 6 volt positive ground alternators for tractor applications, but the Model T guys seem to be very pleased with them. They even mention the their headlights burn brighter, too... in spite of the fact they are only running6 volts! We shall see!

[TallCoolOne58]

Replaceable points for the VR are not practical, as I see it. Sticking here with the USA made VR and the battery maintainer...I don't see a better choice.

Maybe Ben Franklin or John *.?-!.* or TooCoolOne58 can explain how those coils of wire (thin wire at core, heavy wire outside) pop those contacts up and down.

It's TallCoolOne, as in frosty adult beverage as a personal reward for accomplishing my goals for the day.

It's simple, really. Current flow is used to energize a magnet. The magnet's attraction to metal-or another magnet-is used to overcome spring tension.

Simple basic explanation would be a cut-out relay. No current (tractor off, kill switch pushed in). Spring tension used to hold points open, so the battery is disconnected from the generator to prevent battery discharge. Tractor on, current flow, magnet energized, magnet powerful enough to overcome spring tension, attracts to metal and forces points closed, allowing current flow between generator and battery.

[Eugene]

Lets do the cutout. The operation of the cut out depends on which apparatus, battery or generator has the highest voltage. There are two coils of wire in the cutout.

Generator charging higher than the battery voltage, one coil of wire magnetizes and closes the points sending current to the battery.

Shut off the tractor, battery voltage is now higher than the generator. This causes the smaller coil to magnetize in the opposite direction of the larger coil, countering/negating the residual magnetism in the larger coil. Spring controlling the contacts open - no current flow.

[DickB]

I knew there was a reason (not kidding here) I flunked out of engineering school.

PS: Thank God there's the humanities.

[Don B.]

Not to hijack this, but since cut outs were mentioned, I put a solid state cut out on my 1948 Cub partly because a cut out is what it came with and partly because it was 20 bucks. My Cub is 6 volt positive ground - with pretty much the original set up.
It seems to be doing just fine.
https://brillman.com/product/universal-electronic-cutout-relay/
By the way, I am a little 'electronically challenged' to say the least.

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

I have installed and know of others who have installed regulators from NAPA, and have not heard of anyone complaining of a failure.

[halftonstude]

Wow lots of interesting information. Thanks tallcoolone. I'm an EE at a "mother" of a telephone company, and one of my specializations is batteries - all technologies you can think of (and some that are simply amazing). So much truth here, but there are so many different chargers out there, and as soon as you add the word "smart" to any of them (charger, maintainer, power supply, what have you) it becomes a different animal. I made my own maintainer for my generator, a 13.8 kw diesel that has a 14 year old starting battery, just a simple exide 1 amp charger (trickle i think most people here are calling it) plugged into a wall light timer, 30 minutes twice a day, that's it. Voltage Regulators on the other hand are wonderful devices, i have a couple vehicles that have them (51 IH R120, 53 stude 2R5, 2 relay, 3 relay) and the liklihood of a generator putting out much current at all at idle speed is very very low. Most auto manufacturers had options for either high output or low cut-in generators, but rarely anything happens at idle, the generator just isn't spinning fast enough. And if you go back into the 50's, nobody had an external charger to finish forming their battery when they bought it, it got put in the equipment and away it went!
Terminology in the business also varies by business. In our world, "float" is the voltage that is applied to a battery to provide an absolute minimum of charge to a battery to prevent self discharge. In the lead acid world it is usually the specific gravity + .854 + .1 volts. Lower than that and the negative plates don't receive enough polarization, higher than that and gassing starts to increase and the positive plates oxidize faster than they need to (which is the usual mode of failure of long life batteries - we keep ours 40 years sometimes...) The VR adjustments are not digitally controlled, requires bending of armatures and tightening of springs and is better than hap hazard, but takes some time to get nailed down, but when you change the RPM of the generator, you're going to get different results. This is one of those times "close enough" has to work, because if your battery is going to last 8 years (ya get what ya pay for, look for it in the warantee) it's going to last that long with some care, but there are variables that don't affect it that much. Are you going to make your starting battery last 30 years by adjusting the VR to charge the battery at 13.524 versus 13.500? nope. it wont' matter that much.
Hope I haven't confused too much, i start rambling at times, this looks to be one of those times... I will add one thing to Tallcoolone's comment, batteries do what they're designed to do. Lead acid batteries take deep discharges very well, if they're designed to do so. Starting batteries are very thin plate batteries, designed to have high capacitive value, and can get rid of their current quickly (lots of surface area) and are not meant to be discharged deeply. Telephone batteries, however, are the complete opposite. Similar to trolloing motor batteries. Very very thick plates designed for deep long duration discharges, over and over. With proper maintenance and proper use, batteries will last. I regularly see batteries still in service from the early 80's. I expect my generator starting battery will go soon, chemistry is fickle. If you're not sulfating you're oxidizing. If you're not charging, you're stratifying and hydrating... the best we can do is to pick a point that will minimize all the bad stuff as best we can!