Setting Timing

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Glen
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby Glen » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:10 pm

Hi,
The Cub has been changed to 12 volts, with an alternator, and a Battery Ignition unit.
IH used none of those in 1949 on Cubs. The parts are more modern than the 1949 system, and nothing wrong with using them.
The owner's manual I posted on the page before this one, shows what they originally looked like.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-33.jpg

Nowadays they use a timing light for timing the Battery Ignition unit. The Cub service manual says the Battery ignition unit is timed like I wrote in the post on the page before this one.
I would buy a timing light at NAPA or somewhere for it.
You only need 1 timing mark to time it, like I wrote on the page before this one.
A 1949 Cub came with 1 timing mark on the pulley.

You can check to see if the spark advance is working, using the timing light, like I wrote on the page before this one.
You can guess at where the 2nd mark would be, it is not a necessity that it is there. Only the TDC mark is needed for setting the timing.
Below is a page from the Cub service manual showing the pulley with 2 marks, you can use the pic to guess where the 2nd mark would be. They are numbered there.
They are talking about other subjects on the page, only the pic and the words below it are needed. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 001-43.jpg

Maybe you are not done with it yet, but the fan shroud has no screws holding it on, in your pic, on the right side. It uses 4 screws to hold it onto the radiator supports.

While you have the hood off, look at the slotted holes on the rear of the alternator, if they are dirty or plugged, use air and blow them open.
I have a tractor with a Delco alternator, and the holes on the rear get plugged with dirt. There are parts inside the alt that need air flow. The dirt will blow out the front of the alt. Use your safety glasses when using the air.

WildFarmall
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby WildFarmall » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:05 pm

Glen - I cannot properly express how much I appreciate your response as well as others who have helped me with this. I could not, and probably would not, have started this without your guidance and help. Dale event sent some spacers for my final drive!. It has taken me three months so far and I hope to at least get it running in a couple of days.
1. I will look into getting a timing light. In for a dime in for a dollar? Hope that it is easy to use.
2. The picture was taken before the fan shroud was fastened on. It has already been done.
3. I had the alternator and starter serviced by a local repair shop. I can only trust that he did this right.
4. I am working on rewiring the tractor. Is there a simple wiring diagram that you recommend with my setup? I especially need a closeup of the light switch module. What about the little fuse? What amperes? My alternator has been converted to a one wire out.
Thanks so much to all.


Glen wrote:Hi,
The Cub has been changed to 12 volts, with an alternator, and a Battery Ignition unit.
IH used none of those in 1949 on Cubs. The parts are more modern than the 1949 system, and nothing wrong with using them.
The owner's manual I posted on the page before this one, shows what they originally looked like.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-33.jpg

Nowadays they use a timing light for timing the Battery Ignition unit. The Cub service manual says the Battery ignition unit is timed like I wrote in the post on the page before this one.
I would buy a timing light at NAPA or somewhere for it.
You only need 1 timing mark to time it, like I wrote on the page before this one.
A 1949 Cub came with 1 timing mark on the pulley.

You can check to see if the spark advance is working, using the timing light, like I wrote on the page before this one.
You can guess at where the 2nd mark would be, it is not a necessity that it is there. Only the TDC mark is needed for setting the timing.
Below is a page from the Cub service manual showing the pulley with 2 marks, you can use the pic to guess where the 2nd mark would be. They are numbered there.
They are talking about other subjects on the page, only the pic and the words below it are needed. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 001-43.jpg

Maybe you are not done with it yet, but the fan shroud has no screws holding it on, in your pic, on the right side. It uses 4 screws to hold it onto the radiator supports.

While you have the hood off, look at the slotted holes on the rear of the alternator, if they are dirty or plugged, use air and blow them open.
I have a tractor with a Delco alternator, and the holes on the rear get plugged with dirt. There are parts inside the alt that need air flow. The dirt will blow out the front of the alt. Use your safety glasses when using the air.

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Glen
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Location: Wa.

Re: Setting Timing

Postby Glen » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:45 pm

Hi,
Before timing the engine, set the point gap to .020", like the Cub owner's manual shows. I would put in new ignition points and condenser, if you didn't.

Below is listing for a lower priced timing light. It is just an example to show you what it is. They are simple to connect, 2 clips for the battery, and the other connection clips over the number 1 spark plug wire. The end of the unit has a light in it.
With the engine running at about 500 RPM, point the end with the light at the timing mark, and pull the trigger, the light will flash on and off, and light the pulley and mark. The mark has to align with the pointer. If they don't align, adjust the distributor, by loosening the 2 bolts holding the clamps, at the round base of the distributor, and turn the distributor, until the mark and pointer align. Tighten the bolts when done timing it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Petrol-Engine- ... ctupt=true

You only need a lower priced light for a Cub. They make them that cost more than this one.
You can see the timing mark easier if you color it white with chalk or something before timing it.
The light probably comes with directions, something could be different than I wrote. :)

Below is a pic from TM Tractor, of the charge and light switch a 1949 Cub came with. They originally controlled the charge rate, before voltage regulators were used on Cubs, and the lights. They have 4 positions, turning the knob. The fuse is built onto the back of the switch. The owner's manual says use a 20 amp fuse, on page 63.
If you still have this style of switch, you have to combine part of the original wiring positions with the newer wiring for the alternator.

Some of the people have wiring diagrams for that, maybe someone will post it for you.

The 1 and 2 positions originally control the charge rate, the 3 and 4 positions control the lights, the guys have said the first 2 positions become off, using the switch for just the lights. Then position 3 is dim front lights, and position 4 is bright all lights.
There is a wiring diagram in the 1949 Cub owner's manual on page 34, of the original way. It also tells about the 4 position switch.
Attachments
Cub switch 3.jpg
Last edited by Glen on Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Dale Finch
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:50 pm

I would agree with Glen on the timing light...just get a very simple, inexpensive one. My big fancy (expensive) one from Craftsmen doesn't work well with the cubs.
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby coppersmythe » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:33 am

Dale Finch wrote:I would agree with Glen on the timing light...just get a very simple, inexpensive one. My big fancy (expensive) one from Craftsmen doesn't work well with the cubs.
right on the money . i found one in a thrift store for $2.00 . they let me take it outside and test it on my truck .:-) , coppersmythe....................................

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Re: Setting Timing

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:52 am

Most timing lights require 12v. Connect the clips to a 12v battery (use an external battery if your cub is 6v).
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby JimCub48 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:07 am

Above post , does that mean if the 4 position switch is in the 3rd or 4th position the battery is not beging charged. And with lights on the battery will drain. I have watched mine in position 3 low light and the amp meter is on the positive side . When the switch is in position 4 bright light the needle will slide to the negative side at idel. At about half trottle amp meter will move to the positive side.

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Re: Setting Timing

Postby WildFarmall » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:21 am

Thanks so much Glen and all. I will get the Timing Light. Still confused about the wiring but I will try a few things. I have the service manual so I will check that again but the picture I looked at was really small. It also shows a ground wire which I am not sure where it goes. I have a 12 volt battery system with alternator. I change all points, plugs, plug wires, condenser, distributor cap, and rotor. I gapped all as best I could.
Thanks all.

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Re: Setting Timing

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:41 am

JimCub48 wrote:Above post , does that mean if the 4 position switch is in the 3rd or 4th position the battery is not beging charged. And with lights on the battery will drain. I have watched mine in position 3 low light and the amp meter is on the positive side . When the switch is in position 4 bright light the needle will slide to the negative side at idel. At about half trottle amp meter will move to the positive side.

Positions 3 and 4 set high charge the same as position 2. Position 1 is the only one that sets low charge. As you have noted, the lights consume most of the generator output. All your noted ammeter readings are normal.

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Re: Setting Timing

Postby tmays » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:07 pm

Agree you can’t check the advance with pulley as is, but no need to change the pulley. Just find the distance between the marks on a pulley with both marks and mark your pulley
Thomas

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Re: Setting Timing

Postby BIGHOSS » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:17 pm

"Courage is being scared to death-but saddling up anyway".......John Wayne

WildFarmall
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby WildFarmall » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:26 pm

Sorry that I have not posted in a while but here is an update:
1. I bought a cheap timing light from Harbor Freight, read the instructions and tried it but did not have success.
a. I would up checking compression using my finger on the #1 plug cylinder. When I felt a puff it seemed like the only notch I had on the flywheel was at or around the pointer so I set my rotor in the distributer to the # plug wire.
b. The good news is that when I tried starting my tractor it started right away and seemed to run smoothly! Beginners luck? In any case I tried the timing light by setting it to zero on the dial and pointed it at the notch which I marked with a white welding marker. I tried pointing it at the mark on the left side of the tractor (the side where the carb is on) I did not get it to work there so I then tried the other side. I know that the plug wire clip is directional. In any case nothing doing. Any suggestions?
c. I then tried turning the distributer housing counterclockwise (toward the tractor) until it started bogging down. Then I turned it in the other direction until it bogged a little and then split the difference and then tightened it down. Seems to run good. Any suggestions.
The bad news is that while it runs smoothly there is some smoke from either oil leaking around the piston rings or somewhere else. It is not real bad but is worrisome. I have someone coming to look at it next week as I am not sure I am ready to do pistons, valves, or rings. Other than checking oil levels is there a good diagnostic to determine what needs repairing? Assuming pistons/sleeves/rings how much is this likely to cost. I figure @ $500 for parts - is this right? Labor?

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Re: Setting Timing

Postby Waif » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:03 pm

I'd worry more if mine did not smoke at cold idle....

With clean oil and good air breathing (and valve gaps and movement are good) There is less smoke after leaving idle , and less again after warming up and working.
Still enough un noticed (visually) smoke from the engine and the ethanol treatment to know when the breeze is from the stack to me....

A compression test will tell more than smoke will. (?)

Oil level being monitored over hours of work for decline from leaks or burning can be done cheaply enough.
Gaining oil by a hydraulic leak at the pump can create not only more smoke than usual , but a mini volcano of wet nasty drops on the hood when too much gets in the oil pan..

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Glen
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby Glen » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:15 pm

Hi,
Good that you got the engine to run. :)

The timing light is used only on the left side of the engine.

I don't know what you mean about not getting the timing light to work, if it doesn't work, it has to have good connections to a 12 volt battery, if it is a 12 volt timing light.
If the light doesn't flash, when connected right, return it to the store and tell them.

Below is a page from the Cub service manual showing the timing marks. A 1949 Cub has 1 mark on the pulley, the number 1 mark in the pic. Using the timing light, align the mark with the pointer at slow idle speed, which should be 500 RPM, you can use a test tachometer to set the speed.
They are talking about other subjects on the page, use only the pic and words below it.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 001-43.jpg
Last edited by Glen on Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Waif
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Re: Setting Timing

Postby Waif » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:22 pm

Might double check the air mixture screw setting too. After being sure main jet is clean. (Again).
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