6V System w/4 position switch w/cutout and Delco Remy Regulator

[Whitecub50]

Hey guys whitecub50 here, I was asking earlier about my generator and the voltage regulator and if my 3 brush generator would work with regulator and not cutout/relay. Well I put brand new regulator on and hooked it up according to diagrams from this page and at first when started tractor and had if at half throttle it was showing 7.2 on my multimeter so I got excited until I shut the tractor off about 45 minutes later after letting it charge the battery a bit. The battery was dead. So I hand cranked it and When I checked it again running it was at 6.91 and then it dropped again to 6.7 and then 6.34. That’s less than the battery is supposed to be. So I ran jumper from F terminal on gen to ground on battery and the amp gauge went from 0 to charging. That means the regulator is bad.... again! Dammit! What am I doing wrong? This is getting expensive. My gen # is 100501 regulator has no number on it, not in the outside anyways. Is it possible something else is bad in the charge system? What regulator is called for this # 100501 generator?
Thanks guys all input is appreciated.

[Jim Becker]

I assume you missed one digit of the generator number and it is 1100501. It was the one used immediately after the change to a voltage regulator, from 1950 through at least 1955. The original regulator with it was 1118308 (mounted below generator). Later on, the regulator substituted to 1118982 which was used on later 6-volt Cubs (maybe all of them).

Your jumper wire test verifies the generator is good and suggests the regulator is bad. It could also mean that you have a bad ground anywhere in the regulator mounting. Take your jumper wire and connect one end to the base of the regulator and the other end to the end frame of the generator. If it starts charging, you have a bad ground.

[tst]

beware of the cheap import regulators also, they cost less, you get what you pay for, poor grounds are a main cause for many charging issues and bad connections

[tomcough]

Regarding the generator "F" connected to the "F" on the cutout; I'm going to disconnect this and try it our. Thanks, Jim
Tom Coughlin
Stow, MA

[Glen]

Hi
Whitecub50, Thanks for posting the serial number and generator number.

If the generator is a 1100501, someone has changed it to that, and evidently a voltage regulator system, you said it had a Battery Ignition unit too.

It is common for the cable and wire ends to get dirty, then they may not make good connections.
You could try cleaning all the battery cable ends and connections, and wiring ends, take them off one at a time and sand them with fine sandpaper, wipe off the sanding with a clean rag.
Disconnect the battery ground first, and leave it disconnected until done.

People have said on here that some of the new voltage regulators don't work good.

Charge the battery fully, with a small output battery charger, I use a 6 amp charger, and check it's voltage an hour after turning off the charger, then see if it turns the engine over normally.
I have read that slow charging is recommended, it takes 6 - 10 hours of charging if the battery is low.
The battery could have a problem if it quits turning the engine over soon.

Many batteries say on them to wear eye protection when working around them, a good idea, batteries can explode if you have any sparks or flames near them.
They emit explosive hydrogen gas during, and after charging, keep all sparks and flames away.
Some people on here have had one explode, they have real power when they explode.

You could have the Cub 12 volts, negative ground, with an alternator, and use a magneto, if you want.
The magneto is separate from the battery.

[Whitecub50]

Thanks everyone for the info. Long story short my tractor has all new wiring harness, battery, brand new magneto, brand new starter, all grounds are as clean as can be. The one thing I’m wondering that was mentioned here by Jim is not having a good ground at regulator. Well I’m thinking and hoping that my problem with charging is I don’t have the regulator mounted to plate underneath genie, I don’t have the mounting plate so I took a large hose clamp and clamped it to the top of the genie. Which I’m almost positive that it has a terrible ground If any?? I will correctly mount the regulator and also make sure I have the right one. It is a cheaper one and I have no idea if I even have the right one for my generator that’s # 1100501. I will make sure I have the correct one to match that generator and see if that makes a difference? So my battery is fully charged and Glen had mentioned that a slow charge was the best for 6-10 hours. I have a real nice 12/6 volt charger that charges either 6v fast 40 amps or 2amp slow charge. I’ve charged it slow for only a couple hours and shut it off when battery acid started leaking out of filler holes. Not good Glen I presume?? Battery is brand new and I’m wondering if I shorted it out?? Because with full charge and all the connections clean and good ground it act like it’s dead? Even with the charger on and the 200amp engine start on charger it turns over like it’s dead. Could it be the battery? Like I said the grounds are as clean as can be everything else is brand new I even took starter out and lightly sanded the base of bell housing and face of starter to make sure that there’s good ground there also, and still turns over like dead battery. I really think battery is bad/has a shorted cell maybe ?? As for the battery safety Glen I know all to well what happens with spark and battery gases, last year I spent one evening in the ER to get my eyes flushed because my battery exploded in my face leaving both my eyes with acid burns. So I take the utmost precautions when it comes to batteries. As for my battery like I was saying what are your guys thoughts on it being fully charged and not turning over with all the grounds And connections clean and also battery acid Bubbling out at filler holes when charging? Sound like a bad battery?? And again thanks so very much for all the info and help Jim, Glen, and tst. Look forward to some more help. Jake@ whitecub50.

[Whitecub50]

Ok guys whitecub50 here again. Just found new regulator for generator and mounting plate on eBay, purchased both. I found the number on my current regulator and it’s incorrect for the generator that I have numbered 1100501. The number is 121578.The correct one that was originally for that generator according to Jim is 1118308 and then later on 1118982. I found the regulator replacement for these original regulators with these #’s so now it’s a waiting game for them to be delivered and mounted. Hopefully this cures my charging issues?? As for my battery I hope you guys have some input on wether it’s bad or not. Thanks again everyone for everything. Jake@whitecub50

[Eugene]

Bad battery? Conduct a voltage drop test. Cranking engine over, if the battery voltage drops below 4.5 volts for a 6 volt battery - bad. Below 9 volts for a 12 volt battery - bad.

Fully charged only means that the battery voltage is up to expectation. Doesn't mean that the battery condition is satisfactory.

Battery leaking acid - not good. I would take the battery and purchase receipt back to the store.

[Jim Becker]

If your regulator is 121578C1, I think that is a proper replacement.

I think your battery symptoms suggest overcharging. If there was a short, the boiling over would not be the same in all cells. I let it rest overnight. Then check the cells and add water to cover the plates if needed.

Check your battery voltage. Then check the battery voltage (directly at the battery) while cranking the engine. Does the battery voltage drop way off as the engine turns slower? If so, the battery is probably bad. You can get it load tested at about any place that sells batteries.

[Whitecub50]

Thanks so much guys. I will do this test first thing in the morning when I get home from work. Yeah I definitely think the acid was coming out do to overcharging it? I filled back with distilled water so plates were covered. The battery was brand new a week ago and I know that really don’t mean it can’t be bad but just seems unlikely is all. I ran the tractor with the generator not polarized and the regulator was not grounded correctly , so I wonder can this cause the brand new battery to go bad or short out?? I’ve heard that without polarizing the generator it will not send consistent correct voltage back to battery?? I’m definitely returning the battery for a new one but after I test voltage while cranking it to see if it drops. I hope it reads something while trying to crank it, it only wants to crank maybe if I’m lucky one turn before it just stalls the starter. And yes I just looked at the 121578c1 and it does say it’s the correct replacement regulator, I missed that earlier, sorry. Well either it’s still good and just has a bad ground or it’s bad and I have a new one coming anyway. Either way I will have a extra regulator if it’s just a bad ground on current one which is fine. Like someone said earlier when I did the jumper wire test from F terminal to batt ground when it showed charge that indicates bad regulator, BUT, could also indicate bad ground? So when I get home I’m going to use jumper wire at base of regulator to base of generator and see if it shows charge, then I know it’s should be a bad ground right??? I really appreciate all the help from everyone I can’t stress that enough, I’d be lost on some things without your help. Thanks again jake@whitecub50

[Crimson Tim]

I was about to say, the bushings in the starter can wear, letting the armature rub which creates a lot of drag... but then I remembered you said it was a brand new starter. So, stupid question: the new starter is definitely a 6V starter, right? Not a 12V?
You can run a 6V starter on 12V for short bursts, but running @ 12V starter on 6V is going to act like a dead battery.

If you jump the starter directly from a known good battery, does it turn over well? Then what about jumping the starter directly from your questionable battery? If that works when directly connected, then you have a wiring and/or ground issue.

Also, when checking grounds, check *all* of the connections and contact surfaces. Where is your battery grounded to? Originally, it was to the battery box, which was prone to corrosion problems. Many people change the grounding location to a transmission bolt.
I just recently had a weird electrical problem that turned out to be a bad ground between the floor pan (that my battery was grounded to) and the transmission & bell housing. That was acting like a bad a battery, too.

One last thing, I have read on here that the electrical system on a Cub is pretty “noisy”, such that a digital meter can have trouble settling down to a final measurement value. When you do the voltage drop tests, you may have better luck with an analog meter.
Good luck!

[Whitecub50]

Thanks crimson Tim, yes the starter is definitely 6 volt. I even took it to a local electric shop just to have it bench tested and the two old men in there said there ain’t a dam thing wrong with this starter son . Lol but seriously I really think the battery might have shorted out? With the ground bad on the voltage regulator or bad itself the generator not being polarized at the time when I ran it last I think can cause problems like this??? Is that correct?? My battery ground is on trans case bolt which I used my die grinder with sanding wheel to remove paint and dirty he ground cable is brand new and I even scuffed it up so it’s straight metal to metal contact, should be a good ground? Then I took starter back out just to lightly sand the mating surfaces of the starter and bell housing. Ground there should be good?? All other cables are new, starter switch on top of starter is brand new, whole wiring harness is new. The only thing I can think of is my battery ground was so bad before I cleaned it up and I ended up hand cranking it to start it and then plowed snow for an hour or so with it like that. Maybe it shorted the battery out running like that? Or maybe my charger shorted it out? I have a 12/6 volt charger you can select what voltage and amps. 6v fast charge is 40 amps, my charger doesn’t specifically say 6v slow charge it says 12v 2amp/or 200amp engine start and the last position is 12v fast and I believe it’s 60amp charge? Can the 12v 2amp hurt the battery if it charges for some time?? And how bad is the 200amp engine start position and cranking it?? Could that ruin the battery?? I’m gonna test it this morning when I get off work for volt drop. But I’m not sure if that’s gonna be accurate if the battery is shorted out?? Any ideas? Thanks jake@whitecub50

[Whitecub50]

I forgot, also when I bought the battery a week ago when I first put it in and went through it not wanting to turn over but a half a crank I realized it was the battery ground and cleaned that up and the battery seemed to work pretty good but not for long like I said after I ran it that day with everything else being wrong in the charging system it never wanted to turn over again like it did at first? And I charged it to the point that acid was bubbling out of top? I did refill with distilled water to be safe but to no avail it’s just dead

[Whitecub50]

Ok so I did voltage drop test while cranking it over, doesn’t drop below 5.4-5.5 while cranking. Battery should be good?? Still won’t turn over barley?? I put charger back on and waited for a few, it turned over a little faster for a couple seconds longer and I stress little faster!! And then eventually quit turning over because the battery was just that weak. I’m so confused on what the hell it could be? Either this battery “is” junk or my starter is junk?? Is it possible that my brand new starter could have a short in it?? Would this cause slow cranking??? I went over ever single ground again and they are flawless. Unless for some reason the trans case is a bad place to ground battery?? I’m gonna mess with checking the ground at the base of the regulator to the frame of the generator and if it shows charge then all it should mean is I have a bad ground at the regulator base, that’s an easy fix or should be lol. I’m honestly scared to go return this battery for a new one and bring it home and it does the same exact thing?? But I guess I’m gonna have to??? I’ll post updates later today after I wake up. I’m working nights. I’m gonna slow charge the battery while I sleep and see what happens this afternoon??

[Bill V in Md]

Whitecub50 you didn’t say whether your charger is a “smart” charger or not. A smart charger has the ability to not only stop charging once the battery is fully charged, but also it will vary the voltage and current as the battery approaches a full charge. Otherwise it is possible to overcharge a battery, unless you are closely monitoring it. Not sure if this is the issue here, but I am simply curious.