Adjust clutch and brakes.

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marshall
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Tractors Owned: 1950 Farmall Cub

Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby marshall » Sun May 03, 2020 2:44 pm

My clutch pedal has become really sticky (doesn't want to return to the full up position). I've oiled into the shaft as much as I can and both springs are operating but it only comes back about 1/2 way. I also see that it depresses most of the way before engaging where the final 1" is where it actually does its work. Is this a simple adjustment or am I into something more complex?

Finally, while I'm in this pedal system, I'd like to make my brakes a bit more effective. I have to push in all the way to get a bit of braking but nothing that would allow me to come to a quick stop if I had to. Are there pads that need to be replaced?

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tmays
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby tmays » Sun May 03, 2020 2:54 pm

What year cub? At some point grease zerks were added. Perhaps yours are missing.
On the brakes, brake bands are used. Little bit of a job to do this. Not hard, just quite a bit of work. Final drives will need to be removed. Can do them one at a time. You can buy liner and replace the lining, but probably best bet for you to buy new brake bands. Quite often an overfull tranny in combo with bad seals gets oil on the bands. You can burn that off, but I prefer to replace. And replace the seals while you have the finals off if you’re not sure if they are good.
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marshall
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby marshall » Sun May 03, 2020 5:50 pm

1950. A lot of work... Sigh. Sounds like the kind of project I can put off until next fall now that the tractor has work to do and can't broken down for weeks figuring something out.

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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Dale Finch » Sun May 03, 2020 5:54 pm

In the meantime, use some more penetrating oil (PB Blaster, Kroil, etc). Spray, then work the pedals hard down & up, spray again. I have used a mallet to achieve full range.
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Bob McCarty
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Bob McCarty » Sun May 03, 2020 6:26 pm

marshall wrote:
Finally, while I'm in this pedal system, I'd like to make my brakes a bit more effective. I have to push in all the way to get a bit of braking but nothing that would allow me to come to a quick stop if I had to. Are there pads that need to be replaced?

Have you shortened the turn buckles on the brake rods? Might help a little....
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we need to think differently."
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Glen
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Glen » Sun May 03, 2020 7:19 pm

Hi,
It does happen that the clutch pedal base can get tight in the clutch housing from no lube.

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the clutch pedal base. About 2/3 of the length of the shiny part of it contacts in the hole in the clutch housing. So you have to work some oil into the hole to lube the length.
The 1/3 of it's length on the left has a linkage clamp that connects to the rod.

Usually the base will pull out of the housing 1/4" or so, that will help you work oil into the housing.
Keep oiling it and working the pedal until it moves freely.
Push the pedal base into the housing when done oiling.

Below is a post from Dale Finch about removing a final drive, and replacing the brake lining. :)

viewtopic.php?f=142&t=78436
Attachments
Cub clutch pedal.jpg

marshall
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby marshall » Sat May 30, 2020 10:44 am

My brakes are nearly functionless at this point and its kind of a safety concern. Someone suggested replacing brake bands. While I'm on Steiner ordering the pair of bands (https://www.steinertractor.com/ABC269-Lined-Brake-Band ) is there anything else that I should get as part of overhauling the brakes? Also, are there instructions anyone can point me to on how to do this project? I've not worked on brakes on any vehicle other than a bicycle.

Thanks

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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Bob McCarty » Sat May 30, 2020 11:16 am

There were two styles of brake bands. If your tractor is a 1950, the brake bands should have the rod attached to the band. The later version were a toggle design, and that's what your link to Steiner's shows. You might want to check before ordering. It's possible your's had been replaced if you have toggle bands on it now. TM Tractor carries both styles. There are several "how to's" on replacing the bands.
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Glen
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Glen » Sat May 30, 2020 5:50 pm

Hi,
Yes there is info on here about replacing the brakes.
Read Dale Finch's post that I posted the link for, in my post above this one. It has many pics of repairing a brake.
Her pics show the style of brake that a 1950 Cub would have.
The brakes are in the final drive housings.
You have to remove the final drives to replace the brakes.

The link you posted for a new brake band is the wrong band for a 1950 Cub.
IH changed the style of brake during 1953. The brake you posted is the newer style brake band. It doesn't fit a 1950 Cub.
The rod is made onto the band on the 1st style of brake.
The rod is separate from the band on the 2nd style of brake.

The final drives have different size holes where the brake rod goes in the housing.
There are different linkages on the newer style brake.

Below are pics from TM Tractor, showing the 2 styles of final drives.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gfi ... vecomp.htm

Look at your Cub, and see if it still has the final drives with the smaller holes for the brake rods.

Below is a listing for a new brake band that fits a 1950 Cub.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/br/288fp.htm

You asked what else should be done.
The oil seals should be replaced while you have the final drives off the Cub.
The areas the brakes are in should be dry, no oil there.
There are 2 seals on each side of the Cub, 2 at each brake.
So there are 4 seals total, for the 2 brakes.

One oil seal is shown in Dale's post, it is in the transmission.

There is another seal in the final drive, you can see it in the pics of the housings that I posted above.
It is behind the brake drum, you have to remove the brake drum, the brake drum key, then the 4 bolts holding the round cover on the housing. Then the upper shaft will slide out of the housing.
Slide it the direction that would be out from the tractor, if the housing was on the Cub, then you don't need to remove the snap ring from the ball bearing.
Then you can get to the back side of the seal and hammer it out, using a punch.
Be sure to put the new seals in with the seal lip facing the oil.

Below are listings for new oil seals. The 2 seals are different sizes.
The seal below goes in the transmission.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/df/245fp.htm

The seal below goes in the final drive. There is a parts pic on the page.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/df/044fp.htm

Replacing the seal in the trans on the right side is more work than the left side.
To get to the seal you have to remove the seat post, battery box, and right extension, after removing the final drive.
The platform has to be loosened, so it will lift up at the rear, so the extension will come off.
Good luck. :)

marshall
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby marshall » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:16 pm

Thanks for all the info on the brake project. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once I know what my bands are and get the parts

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Glen
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Glen » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:50 pm

Hi,
When you remove the brake bands, and before putting the new bands in, I would measure the lengths of the rods.
Someone on here said he bought new bands and the rods were shorter, so he couldn't connect the yoke to the linkage for the pedal. I don't know what brand of bands they were. :)

marshall
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby marshall » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:29 am

Thanks Glen for all the info. A couple questions. Do the attached images tell you what kind of brake bands I've got on this 50 cub?
I don't know what things the original owner might have done to update them. He did convert to 12 volt so maybe brakes are of this newer form??

I see the old style bands are selling at $75 each. I notice in Dale Finch shoot that they appear to be riveting new linings into existing bands.

Is this an option if my bands are in good shape or is it best to assume bands are old and should be fully replaced along with lining?

I don't have engine hoist. I do have good jack and stands. Will this be enough to do this safely?

Is the seal project important? I don't really know what replacing them will do and my lower mechanic skills brings risk so I hate to put the tractor at risk unless its important to do. My old guy who worked on it died and so I have full responsibility for this tractor now so I have to take on more risk but I usually dont start messing with things until someone on this forum says something like "your X is broken off"
Attachments
brake2.jpg
brake1.jpg

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Don McCombs
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Don McCombs » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:58 am

Load your tractor up and bring it to Cubfest Northeast in Oxford, NY in early October. Lots of help will be on hand to get it back in good shape.
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Dale Finch
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:24 am

That's the best way to do this!!
First, it will get done SAFELY.
Second, you will have a team of experienced folks to help and guide you...demystify the process.
Third, you really SHOULD replace the seals while it is apart...you will already have done the hard part just getting to the brakes. The guys can show you how.
And finally, instead of being a scary, difficult, time-consuming task, it'll be a "fun" learning experience. :D
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Bob McCarty
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Re: Adjust clutch and brakes.

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:07 am

Looks like you have the early style bands. Here's a link to TM Tractor that shows the differences in the final drive slots: http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gfi ... vecomp.htm Your brake bands may be okay but oil soaked, the set screw on the drum could be loose and allowing the drum to turn on the shaft, etc.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
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