Opinions for 47 Engine?

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ctltmp
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby ctltmp » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:18 am

Crimson Tim wrote:I’ve just been pondering the last few weeks about how much engine work is really practical to DIY and how much you really had better contract out to not make a mess of it. It seems we are getting close to an answer here.

If I had a dollar for every time I was stewing over a question in my head only to have someone else on the forum ask almost exactly the same question... I could afford to buy more Cubs!


Amen to that. I'm comfortable with engine work. But like everything there's a point.
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby inairam » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:12 am

in terms of DYI with tractors

What I have learned from reading on the forum is there are people here with more skill, experience, and access to equipment and tools than I have. It is not possible for me to do a lot of the things people on this forum do. That does not mean you can not enjoy working on your tractor.

You have to decide how you like to enjoy these tractors. I have learned to pick the battles/projects that are within my skill set and tool resources and pay others to do ones that are not.

If you do spend the time and money there is no sense in half measures. It the engine is worth rebuilding it is worth rebuilding to last another 30 years to the next rebuild.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby Gary Dotson » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:11 am

.010 pistons and rings used to be available, I can't say that they still are. I bought them about 30 years ago, from the case IH dealer. What amazed me was that no one in the aftermarket made domed pistons for the C-60 and they were terrible expensive from the dealer. Yes, I bored my cylinders with a Sunnen hone and yes, I was able to remove the taper with very little effort.

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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby ctltmp » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:44 am

Can I get more space to put Cubs first? HaHA! Problem isn't buys them it's finding a place to put them!
WV Mike

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ctltmp
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby ctltmp » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:24 am

i called around some machine shops. The best price I found was $1700.00 to bore, deck block, grind valve seats. That did include the new pistons, rings, main and rod bearings. OUCH!
WV Mike

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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby tmays » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:47 am

ctltmp wrote:i called around some machine shops. The best price I found was $1700.00 to bore, deck block, grind valve seats. That did include the new pistons, rings, main and rod bearings. OUCH!

I had allis G engine rebuilt. Rings, pistons, bearings, and gasket set alone cost me $700. Yeah, I probably could’ve got that a little cheaper by shopping around, but peace of mind knowing everything would be right was worth it for me. Had to have the crank turned. So with having a machinist friend do the work, cost me $1000 with probably few bucks more for small things. So I could see where getting a machine shop to do it all without a discount would run $1700.
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby SONNY » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:17 am

That's a fair price for machine work. ----you could spend $1,700 for another cub and get another engine in the same condition, so the choice is yours. cobble something together with poor results or take it to the people with the right machines to do the job right. ---just my 002.

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1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby inairam » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:47 am

ctltmp wrote:i called around some machine shops. The best price I found was $1700.00 to bore, deck block, grind valve seats. That did include the new pistons, rings, main and rod bearings. OUCH!


try this website https://www.aera.org/member-locator.html AERA Engine Builders Association I have gotten some very reasonable work done buy a few people on this site
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby outdoors4evr » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:47 pm

My 184 engine had similar measurements. Not quite .020 over, but the bores were straight.
I bought .020 over rings and filed them to fit. The filing you do is VERY MINIMAL. With the filing, you are only removing material from the ends of the rings (creating a ring end gap) not filing around the edges.
To start, slide a new ring 1/2 way down the bore and make sure it is flat in the bore. (Use a flat piston inserted upside down to get it straight)
Look at the ring end gap. They should be overlapping when you start. You are going to file 1/2 that much material off each end of the ring to make it fit. Once you have it close, go slow (2-3 strokes of the file per side between test fittings) file it so that you have a very small (but visible) ring gap between the ends.
The rings need a little room to expand due to the heat. Too tight and the rings will break when it gets hot. Too large a gap and you have blowby.
Oil rings are done the same way.
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby ntrenn » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:37 pm

I have not been unlucky enough to have to do a full rebuild on a C60, but $1700 for the machine shop portion sounds like somebody wants a down payment on their next Mercedes. One has to shop prudently and not spend $100 a piston and $150 for a ring set...I know these engines are unique but they shouldn’t have Cadillac prices on everything. Patience and do it right...you will thank yourself 25 years from now.

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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby ricky racer » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:23 pm

ctltmp wrote:i called around some machine shops. The best price I found was $1700.00 to bore, deck block, grind valve seats. That did include the new pistons, rings, main and rod bearings. OUCH!

Wow! Are those engine shops or general machine shops? Talk to some car guys or guys at auto parts stores and see if they have any recommendations.Keep checking around, you should be able to get that price down by hundreds of dollars.
A Sunnen hone like Gary mentioned or a hone such as Bill recommended will do the job. I would consider it if I had the hone but the cost of the hone that Bill suggested costs more than what I paid to get my cylinders bored.
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby BigBill » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:54 pm

The hone I mentioned is the same as the sunnen hone but cheaper it will do the job. The sunnen hone will out last my lifetime. But the lisle hone will do many engines. I had a sunnen but it wore out. It was very old. The lisle hone uses the same stones as the sunnen.

https://www.enginehones.com/lisle15000.html

You can get coarse grit, medium grit, and fine grit stones it depends on how quick or how little the bore needs to be opened up. Start at where the bore is larger and move the hone up and down and spend more time where the hone is tight so the bore becomes even. Your shooting for the bore diameter, zero runout, zero taper top to bottom. The adjustable hone will do it. Keep it oiled.

Clean the valves on a wire wheel, see how much clearance in the valve guides. If the seats look ok lap the valves in.

Doesn’t “yesterdays tractors” offer c60 engine kits.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi- ... ts&r=mcats

Ring gap filer. https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80514/10002/-1

Ring compressor https://www.homedepot.com/p/GEARWRENCH- ... /204625476
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby BigBill » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:17 pm

tst wrote:A hone is made for finishing cylinders, not designed to bore, yes you can do it but if the cylinder is worn to a taper it will not correct the taper, tapered cylinders need to be bored


This adjustable gear driven hone isn’t your ball or spring loaded hone. It can bore with coarse stones. And finish bore with fine stones. It will correct a tapered cylinder.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby ricky racer » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am

BigBill wrote:
tst wrote:A hone is made for finishing cylinders, not designed to bore, yes you can do it but if the cylinder is worn to a taper it will not correct the taper, tapered cylinders need to be bored


This adjustable gear driven hone isn’t your ball or spring loaded hone. It can bore with coarse stones. And finish bore with fine stones. It will correct a tapered cylinder.


I agree and you'll be amazed at how quickly the coarse stones remove material from a bore. Be careful and sneak up on the target bore size so you don't overshoot it. Switch to finer stones when you get close and continue to sneak up on the target bore size.
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Re: Opinions for 47 Engine?

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:52 am

I disagree with the "keep it oiled" statement. We always used our Sunnen hone dry, per Sunnen recommendations.


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