Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

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Longtree
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Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Longtree » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:55 am

Hey all -

Bit new here - this is my first "real" post. The hydraulics on my cub are dead. Dead dead dead. The rest works (after 5 months of work) but next is the hydraulic system because I intend to use her to plow snow (not THIS year, because free time to work on her is few and far between, and it's mid October, but NEXT year....) thought I would try to work on the hydraulic bits over the winter if I can tho and rebuild the pump for starters. There is an ebay listing for a rebuild kit, but I'm not sure my pump matches / is compatible. I'm attaching an image of my pump....of course the last few #'s of the part number are messed up somehow....hoping someone could shed light on what it is so I dont go buying the wrong rebuild kit. Thanks in advance! Cheers - Ian
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IMG_6728.JPG

Masmith
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Masmith » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:01 pm

Look up this part at TM Tractor. It is the pump rebuild kit. The youtube video is a great instructional pump rebuild.

Stock# HY288

https://youtu.be/1aqH6jbcjd0
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:19 pm

There is only one pump rebuild kit. It has parts that fit both versions of the pump, so there will be some left over parts. If you go to rebuild the block, there are two kits and you need to order the one that is correct for the part # on your block. Did you check the hydraulic fluid level? If the level is high on your dipstick, the pump shaft seal is leaking and the pump may not need a full rebuild. It's also possible that the gear has fallen off the pump into the oil pan.
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby ntrenn » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:13 pm

Dead is not always dead...
I was unlucky enough to have a really bad po that just beat the crap out of the tractor. I had the leaky pump oring but also had a drive gear that had way too much clearance. It still worked just fine.
Have you filled the block with oil? If you have nothing with proper oil level, it may lead you to a pump with a stripped drive key, or leaking touch control block.
Be prepared for mission creep and the possibility of doing it more than once. Hold out on the pump rebuild until last...a gear pump that has oil and gets turned will output pressurized oil.

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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Glen » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:00 pm

Hi,
The Touch Control has to have fluid to work. If it is low on fluid, it won't work.
You didn't say if you have checked, or put in fluid.

Below is a post I made about checking and changing the fluid. Check the fluid level first.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106664

If it has fluid, something else to look at is, people on here have had the pump drive gear fall off, then the Touch Control doesn't work, the pump would not turn if the gear falls off.
It is held on with a nut and a special lock washer, that bends over one flat of the nut.
If the gear has fallen off, it, the nut, and the lock washer, could be in the engine oil pan.
Sometimes the nut falls off because people don't put the lock washer on it.

Below is a listing at TM Tractor for a new lock washer. It is a Case IH part, it says. You can look at the pics.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/562fp.htm

Below is a pic from TM Tractor, showing the drive gear and lock washer in place.

There might be nothing wrong with the pump, other than the gear could have fallen off. :)
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Cub T C pump.jpg

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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Glen » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:55 pm

Here is some info about the Touch Control pump, if you need to take it off, or rebuild it.

To remove the pump, you have drain the system first. Remove the filler plug on the Touch Control, then the drain plug. You can run the engine briefly, like the operator's manual says, to empty the tubes.
You have to remove the tubes to remove the pump from the engine.
The tubes have 3 bolts at the upper end, and 2 bolts hold them onto the pump.

A 1949 Cub came with a vertical exhaust system.
Sometimes people change them to an underaxle exhaust system.
If the Cub has an underaxle exhaust system, you might have to loosen the exhaust system, and move it some, if the exhaust pipe is over the bolts holding the upper end of the tubes on the unit.
The exhaust pipe is in the way on some of them, some of them it is not in the way.

There is a gasket at the upper end of the tubes, and 2 o rings at the lower end of the tubes, the gasket and o rings come in the pump rebuild kit from TM Tractor, it shows in their info.

Below is the pump rebuild kit at TM Tractor.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/288fp.htm

2 of the 4 bolts in the pump hold the pump on the engine. Looking forward from the rear, they are the upper left, and the lower right bolts. Don't remove the other 2 bolts before getting the pump to a clean work bench, it can fall apart. You can loosen them while it is on the engine.

The lock washer holding the nut on at the pump gear has to be good, to keep the nut from coming off during use. It bends over 1 flat of the nut. You have to bend the lock washer away from the nut to remove the nut. If the lock washer is still good, you can use it again.
It has to have the little tab that goes into the keyway, to prevent the nut from turning. Sometimes the tab breaks off, some people on here have said. If the tab is broken it needs a new lock washer.
The listing for a new lock washer is above, in my other post.

The pump shaft where the o ring runs has to be flat and in good condition. Sometimes the shaft wears, and there is a groove. If there is a groove, it needs repair. It may need smoothing with fine sandpaper.

Use plenty of clean Hy-Tran fluid when putting the pump together.

Below is info from the How To section about rebuilding a pump. It has lots of pics.

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=44196

Filling the system with fluid and removing the air is in my other post above. :)

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Longtree
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Longtree » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:13 pm

Hi all - bear with me while I try to answer what all of you have said. I'm new to the forum thing. First of all - thanks for all the answers and help! I have an 8-5 job M-F and a 3 year old son and a house that needs help, so I dont have nearly as much as time for this Cub as I would like, but that said.....I have worked on it when I can since I bought it in May. I have had the oil drain pan off and there were no gears or any other foreign bits in there - just a lot of sludge and grime that's now gone. So....."good" but I guess doesnt solve this problem hah. Interesting to know though!

The youtube link you sent Masmith is exactly the one I had bookmarked for the eventual work haha - thank you - glad to see I'm on the right track there at least.

Its certainly possible that the fluid level isnt (or rather wasnt) high enough. I had pulled the drain plug on the touch control at one point and fluid came out, but I did not then try to top it off :/.

The fellow who sold me the Cub said the hydraulics "didnt work" so perhaps stupidly I have been taking his word for it. ::sigh:: Guy is some sort of heavy equipment operator, so I figured he knew more than I do, but maybe he just never got around to it.

But certainly...currently....nothing happens when trying to move the touch control lever. It has some free movement / play in it, but the handle is pretty much all the way back and like I said - nothing happens when moved.

It seems to me that my first (and probably should've been pretty obvious) step ought to be going to Tractor Supply, buying some HyTran and making sure its completely filled, eh? See what happens then? Busy weekend coming up but I might be able to squeak in some work. Thank you, folks...much appreciated!

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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:44 pm

That would be a good first step. After topping it off, and before you tighten the fill plug, cycle the Touch Control lever 12 to 15 times to get any air out of the system. Recheck the fluid level and tighten the plug. Does it make any sound, currently, when the lever is cycled?
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Longtree
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Longtree » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:08 pm

Don McCombs wrote:That would be a good first step. After topping it off, and before you tighten the fill plug, cycle the Touch Control lever 12 to 15 times to get any air out of the system. Recheck the fluid level and tighten the plug. Does it make any sound, currently, when the lever is cycled?



Hi Don - no, nothing at all. I can't move the touch control lever more than maybe 1.5" or so. It's in the back / toward the driver position and I can move it forward about that much, but then it doesnt move any further. No sound, no "struggle" or anything.....might as well be decorative. ::sigh::

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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:18 pm

OK. Let us know whether you are able to implement my suggestions. Particularly the cycling part.
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:50 pm

The hand lever should move nearly the full travel of the quadrant , so you may have a linkage problem, or maybe a problem with the control piston.
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Glen » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Hi,
The Touch Control lever should move through it's full travel range any time, with the engine on or off.
If it doesn't move, something is stuck.
The lever works the Control Valve, which is in the front of the Touch Control block.

The linkage may be stuck from sitting and rust, use a light to see the linkage, and lube where it moves with penetrating oil. A spray can is handy for up under the front of the unit.

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the front of a Touch Control, with the rockshaft removed.
The Control Valve is at the lower right, right in the pic.
The Control Valve itself might be stuck, if after lubing the linkage it won't move, push the lever sort of hard both directions, and see if it will move. :)
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Cub T C 4.jpg

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Longtree
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Longtree » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:41 am

Glen wrote:Hi,
The Touch Control lever should move through it's full travel range any time, with the engine on or off.
If it doesn't move, something is stuck.
The lever works the Control Valve, which is in the front of the Touch Control block.

The linkage may be stuck from sitting and rust, use a light to see the linkage, and lube where it moves with penetrating oil. A spray can is handy for up under the front of the unit.

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the front of a Touch Control, with the rockshaft removed.
The Control Valve is at the lower right, right in the pic.
The Control Valve itself might be stuck, if after lubing the linkage it won't move, push the lever sort of hard both directions, and see if it will move. :)


Glen / John.......interesting. If definitely does NOT move thru its whole range. My cub was a lawn ornament for years, so I would not be at all surprised if it was rusted stuck in there. I'm actually surprised MORE wasn't!

I will definitely try to get something in there to break it up and lube and see how that goes. Work depends on good weather here (no garage / barn / shelter) and its raining today, but soon. I'll update this post when I do. Thank you!

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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby Don McCombs » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:49 am

If you don’t already have the hood off, taking it off will facilitate visibility of and access to the business end of the Touch Control unit.
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Re: Hydraulic Rebuild (Part Number)

Postby FoundtheLight1 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:04 pm

Longtree, I see that we both have the same problem, I just bought a 55 cub on Saturday, and with fresh Hytran oil still nothing happens. Thanks to all above for the great advice. I'm gonna try to look into that drive gear issue first and see what I find. Hoping to get this workhorse hooked to a land plow and get my garden turned over this week.


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