How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

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inairam
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby inairam » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:45 am

I just looked up 2 cold-cranking amp numbers for a Duracell 6v group 1 and Duracell 12v group 26 battery ( both fit in the battery box and it was the first one to come up in a search) The group 1 has Cold Cranking Amps: 640 and the 12v Cold Cranking Amps: 540. I looked up some other brands and had lower numbers for CCA for the 12 v battery vs the 6v.

I think the issue with cold stating has more to do with the quality, model, and condition of the battery, cables, and tune of Cub and state of the carb than 6 vs 12 volts. The batteries of the same group are close to the same size but do not have the same specs.
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Clemsonfor » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:24 pm

inairam wrote:I just looked up 2 cold-cranking amp numbers for a Duracell 6v group 1 and Duracell 12v group 26 battery ( both fit in the battery box and it was the first one to come up in a search) The group 1 has Cold Cranking Amps: 640 and the 12v Cold Cranking Amps: 540. I looked up some other brands and had lower numbers for CCA for the 12 v battery vs the 6v.

I think the issue with cold stating has more to do with the quality, model, and condition of the battery, cables, and tune of Cub and state of the carb than 6 vs 12 volts. The batteries of the same group are close to the same size but do not have the same specs.

Do 12v and 6v cold cranking amps directly compare? I don't know if it's some converted standard as I am no expert but 12v amps and 6v don't compare do they? This may be one of those mind tricks for me . But amps x voltage = watts so the wattage is different. But again maybe it's some standard they measure batteries in the cold.??

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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Gary S. » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:13 pm

I think with today's different formulas of fuel for so many areas it's hard to compare how one starts over another. That said if my 62 and 72 year old tractors don't want to start when it's 0 out well then they are smarter than the one who wants to go out in that. If they absolutely have to go out a heat gun on the manifold gets them going fast.

inairam
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Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
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Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby inairam » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:58 pm

My point is there are a number of people who convert the tractor to "make it easier to start". The real issue with starting is getting and keeping the cub in good shape to start not if it is 6 or 12 volts. My personal experience is I have 4 running 6 volts tractors and 4 running 12 v tractors. Overall I say the 6 voters are better starters. I also think it depends on an IH vs Zenith carb. I find the Zenith carbs very grumpy in the cold.
Last edited by inairam on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Rick Spivey » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:12 pm

Clemsonfor wrote:Do 12v and 6v cold cranking amps directly compare? I don't know if it's some converted standard as I am no expert but 12v amps and 6v don't compare do they? This may be one of those mind tricks for me . But amps x voltage = watts so the wattage is different. But again maybe it's some standard they measure batteries in the cold.??


Amps are amps. But the resistance in the circuits plays into the equation as well. Ohm's law states that I (amperes) = V (voltage) x R (resistance). If the resistance of a 6 volt starter and a 12 volt starter were the same, then the amps needed would be less on 6 volt by a factor of 2. Obviously the resistance is not the same at all. I think the whole point of insuring good starts on 6 volt is to insure the resistance is kept to a minimum, which involves good connections, proper gauge wire. And then ultimately to keep from draining your battery, good engine tune.
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby k hutchins » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:41 pm

When l plowed my drive last weekend it was 10° when l went out to start. Workhorse's shed is not heated, and l didn't do anything except turn the gas on, choke it once, and it started on the third pull of the starter. During engine warm up the carb and bottom of the manifold actually frosted over. All with a 3 or 4 yr old 6v battery that was almost dry and definitely dead in December when l got him back together. 24 hrs on a Noco charger brought it back. I've used it enough since to maintain the charge.
Sure beats cranking by hand in that cold. I did that for many yrs when l didn't have money for a new battery.
Key is having everything tuned correctly.
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Greenthumbfarms » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:18 pm

I think the primary thought behind the 12 volt conversion and ease of starting is that most folks only have 12v vehicles and 12v battery chargers. If the battery runs low, its simple to jump start them
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Super A » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:15 pm

Greenthumbfarms wrote:I think the primary thought behind the 12 volt conversion and ease of starting is that most folks only have 12v vehicles and 12v battery chargers. If the battery runs low, its simple to jump start them


You can jump 6v with 12v, but it can be risky.

If the truth was known, a lot of old tractors get converted to 12v because 12 is twice as many as 6 so it has to be better. There, I said it..... 8)

Al
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Clemsonfor » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:01 pm

Super A wrote:
Greenthumbfarms wrote:I think the primary thought behind the 12 volt conversion and ease of starting is that most folks only have 12v vehicles and 12v battery chargers. If the battery runs low, its simple to jump start them


You can jump 6v with 12v, but it can be risky.

If the truth was known, a lot of old tractors get converted to 12v because 12 is twice as many as 6 so it has to be better. There, I said it..... 8)

Al

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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby NJ Farmer » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:21 am

I know this is going to sound “crazy” in the tractor world but in Aviation in Alaska pilots/owners of small aircraft will drain there oil the night before they plan on flying the next day and bring the oil inside overnight. The next morning they will pour the room temperature oil into the engine and get a flawless start every time. Aircraft engine oil is quite thick (20w-50w, 15w-50w etc) so the need for preheat is required also cold engine starts and warm ups are quite hard on aircraft engines.

Anyway food for thought. When that oil is cold it is moving very slow and no oil flow means no lubrication anyway you all know the rest.

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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Magnum » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:29 am

NJ Farmer wrote:I know this is going to sound “crazy” in the tractor world but in Aviation in Alaska pilots/owners of small aircraft will drain there oil the night before they plan on flying the next day and bring the oil inside overnight. The next morning they will pour the room temperature oil into the engine and get a flawless start every time. Aircraft engine oil is quite thick (20w-50w, 15w-50w etc) so the need for preheat is required also cold engine starts and warm ups are quite hard on aircraft engines.

Anyway food for thought. When that oil is cold it is moving very slow and no oil flow means no lubrication anyway you all know the rest.

NJ Farmer


Not crazy at all. My grandfather did the same on the H when it was real cold out. Now I have a magnetic pan heater , works pretty good

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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Peter Person » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:38 am

Magnum wrote:Not crazy at all. My grandfather did the same on the H when it was real cold out. Now I have a magnetic pan heater , works pretty good


Same here. Got mine 15 years ago and it still works.
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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby Paul in NJ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:49 pm

My 1952 Cub is still 6 volts and starts easily in winter. Wasn't always the case. I found I needed to use lighter oil in winter to ease cranking vs heavier summer weight oil. This did improve cranking speed when cold but dropped hot oil pressure slightly. I rebuilt the IH carb and determined that the float level was low during the rebuild. I expect this was making the mixture lean overall. I had NGK plus in the engine and went to D21 Champions. With these fixes, went from hard to start in cold weather to stating quickly on the first pull of the starter switch. I use the tractor for snow plowing in winter so needed a reliable starting. I did the + ground cable fix Big Dog listed that uses the longer Farmall M ground cable and attached to the battery box to frame bolt under the battery. This takes out the resistance of the sheetmetal battery box connection and grounds to the rear axle casting more directly. As long as 6 volt batteries are available and cost effective I intend to keep with the 6 volt system.

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Re: How Well Will A 6 Volt Cub Start In Cold Weather?

Postby SONNY » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:34 am

Had an old H here that temps didnt affect --- IF it would turn over 1 rev it was running. -- never had any reason to start any of my 6-v cubs but the yellow one has started every time I ever tried it ----- factory 12-v in them.
Nuttin wrong with 6-v IF it is properly kept up.


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