Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

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Clubless
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Location: NC, Pilot Mountain

Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Clubless » Sat May 29, 2021 5:23 pm

Hi All,
I'm in process of converting my '55 cub from it's original 6 volt battery distributor system to 12 volt alternator. I have installed a Denso 12180se Mini single wire alternator, but I need help with confirming my wiring. I am using the Delco 10si wiring diagram (shown below). After connecting my 12 volt battery with negative post to ground and the positive post to starter lug, I pulled the ignition switch out and checked ammeter expecting to see some discharge. The ammeter nettle did not show any charge or discharge. The ammeter was working prior to conversion. Since I did not see any activity on the ammeter I stopped work and opted to consult with the many experts here.

Starting with the alternator:
I have the green wire attached to the battery post on alternator connected to the positive side of ammeter. (The left terminal shown in below picture)

Coil:
I have jumper wire connected to negative side of coil to the distributor. I connected the positive side of coil to one terminal of the ignition switch. (Red wire coming from coil to ignition switch with blue crimp connector)

Ammeter:
Negative terminal (right terminal in picture) connected to positive side of coil.

Positive terminal (left terminal shown in picture)...
Green wire connected to alternator battery post.
Orange jumper wire connected to other terminal on the ignition switch.
Another orange wire connected to the light switch.

I hope the pictures and wiring narrative will be helpful with diagnosing my issue.
Attachments
Alt_1.jpg
Alternator and coil
Alt_2.jpg
Ammeter ignition and light switch
Wiring diagram.jpg
Single wire diagram

tst
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby tst » Sat May 29, 2021 5:39 pm

check for battery power at the alternator, it is a one wire unit so if it has power it should work, do not know how many rpm is needed to "excite the unit, you can bypass the amp meter just to see if the alternator works, should put out around 13 3/4 -14.5 volts using a meter

Clubless
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:43 pm
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Tractors Owned: ---------
1948 Farmall Cub #56596
1950 Farmall Cub #101608
1950 Farmall Cub #106823
1955 Farmall Cub #188789
Location: NC, Pilot Mountain

Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Clubless » Sat May 29, 2021 5:54 pm

tst,
I have not started/run tractor since I did not see any activity on ammeter when I pulled ignition switch as I am concerned my wiring is incorrect and I don’t want to damage the alternator. Does it appear my wiring is correct? Should there be movement of the ammeter when I pull the ignition switch out?

tractorpoor
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby tractorpoor » Sat May 29, 2021 6:45 pm

The amp meter should show discharge when you pull the ignition switch out.

tst
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby tst » Sat May 29, 2021 7:56 pm

hard to damage it, it needs 12 volts to it to work, amp gauge work ? if the points are open it will not show a discharge, also when it does charge you probably have a 30 amp gauge so it will bury the needle on the amp gauge as it probably puts out around 60 amps, as long as it has 12 volts and a ground it should work

Bigwally30
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Bigwally30 » Sat May 29, 2021 11:39 pm

If the points are open there will be no current flow.

Gary Dotson
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Gary Dotson » Sun May 30, 2021 6:05 am

I agree with Tim, I’m not sure you have any problem. Start it up and see what you get. Check your charge output with a volt meter. The Mini Denso is only 35 amp so your meter may peg briefly but will drop back after a short time.

Clubless
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:43 pm
Zip Code: 27041
Tractors Owned: ---------
1948 Farmall Cub #56596
1950 Farmall Cub #101608
1950 Farmall Cub #106823
1955 Farmall Cub #188789
Location: NC, Pilot Mountain

Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Clubless » Sun May 30, 2021 12:55 pm

Followed suggestions from a couple of members to start tractor and see what happens. Apparently the points were open when I originally pulled ignition switch out. I bumped the starter then checked ammeter when I pulled out switch, ammeter showed slight discharge. Started tractor and checked voltage at battery with voltmeter. It's a digital meter so I was getting wide swings of voltage readings, some over 15 volts. My tractor buddy has analog meter I will borrow and check voltage again.

Thanks tst and Bigwall30 for the heads-up on points being open. I appreciate all of you taking time to review my wiring and responses. It's great being a member here. My real mechanic friends have nicknamed me "Farmallcub.com" because I always refer to this site whenever I ask them questions regarding my cubs. I'm a "lefty loosey-righty tighty" kinda of cub mechanic, so I rely on you guys to guide me through whatever situations comes up.

Now, moving on to another question. The alt pulley and fan pulley are not lined-up exactly which results in alt belt being slightly misaligned. I bought the alt mounting bracket from Brillman's designed for the Denso alternator. The alternator pulley needs to be moved forward about 1/8". So, the question is "Can the Denso alternator pulley be moved forward or is there another option to get the 2 pulleys in line?"

Alt belt.jpg
Belt not lined-up


:tractor:

Here is video of ammeter with tractor running at 3/4 throttle.
https://studio.youtube.com/video/JlGrnyRpm5I/edit

Bob McCarty
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Bob McCarty » Sun May 30, 2021 1:00 pm

I don't know what Brillman's bracket looks like, but could you shim with washers to move the alternator forward?
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

Clubless
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:43 pm
Zip Code: 27041
Tractors Owned: ---------
1948 Farmall Cub #56596
1950 Farmall Cub #101608
1950 Farmall Cub #106823
1955 Farmall Cub #188789
Location: NC, Pilot Mountain

Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Clubless » Sun May 30, 2021 1:45 pm

Bob,
Below is picture of the Brillman bracket, as you can see the bracket is "fixed" position so it cannot be moved forward. I plan to call John at Brillman's to see if the alt pulley can be shimmed forward on the alternator shaft.

Thanks for your response!
Gary
Attachments
alt bracket.jpg
Brillman Denso alt bracket
Denso alt.jpg
Denso alternator

Cubfriend
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Cubfriend » Sun May 30, 2021 3:51 pm

You could just use a Dremmel tool to elongate the holes in the bracket and slide it forward. May have to add flat washers to bracket bolts for covering slot.
Frank

tst
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Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby tst » Sun May 30, 2021 4:10 pm

it is crooked also, if you run it like that it will destroy the belt and bearings

Clubless
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:43 pm
Zip Code: 27041
Tractors Owned: ---------
1948 Farmall Cub #56596
1950 Farmall Cub #101608
1950 Farmall Cub #106823
1955 Farmall Cub #188789
Location: NC, Pilot Mountain

Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Clubless » Sun May 30, 2021 5:37 pm

tst,

I placed a couple of flat washers between alt adjustment arm and water-neck and loosened up the 2 bracket mounting bolts and moved the bracket and re-tightened bolts. Doing this straightened-up the alignment of the 2 pulleys and eliminated the misalignment of the belt. I'll take another picture tomorrow and post to see what you think.

Thanks,
Gary

Gary Dotson
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Tractors Owned: 48 Cub Diesel (Cubota)
53 Cockshutt 20 restored (Shooter)
52 Cockshutt 20 unrestored
47 Leader "B" (Herckie)
49 Leader "D" (Princess)
49 Leader "D" very rough
48 Leader "D" unrestored
Kubota B6200E
Kubota B6200HST
Kubota B8200HST-D
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: OH West Mansfield

Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Gary Dotson » Mon May 31, 2021 7:02 am

While it may be possible to shim the pulley forward, slightly, I wouldn't do it. I would massage the brackets with a Dremel, round file or whatever it takes to get proper alignment.

Clubless
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:43 pm
Zip Code: 27041
Tractors Owned: ---------
1948 Farmall Cub #56596
1950 Farmall Cub #101608
1950 Farmall Cub #106823
1955 Farmall Cub #188789
Location: NC, Pilot Mountain

Re: Generator to Alternator conversion gone south???

Postby Clubless » Mon May 31, 2021 8:02 pm

tst and Gary,

Here are a couple of pictures after I tweaked bracket and alt adjustment arm. I placed a straight-edge against the fan pulley an checked to see how far the alt pulley was from the straight-edge. It looks like it be an 1/8' off.

Don't know if you can make a judgement by looking at the pictures or not.

Thanks for your help!

Gary
Attachments
alt belt straight edge.jpg
Straight-edge
alt belt adjusted.jpg
Belt alignment


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