Battery Drain Help Needed

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Eugene
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Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby Eugene » Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:20 pm

Jim Becker wrote:0.04 volts can't be much of a drain. Is it really causing a problem? Wouldn't it be lost within the internal loss of the battery itself.
Pretty much my thought. There is also a slight bit of line loss voltage.

I had previously suggested checking for the amperage drain.

.14 volt is not much of a loss/battery drain. Actually doesn't indicate anything with out knowing the amp loss.

My thought. Put every thing back in place. Then check for the amp drain from a battery terminal to the battery cable.

I now think we are heading back towards a weak battery.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Jim Becker
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Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:20 am

The unknown variable is the internal resistance of the voltmeter. My old reliable Radio Shack meter is 6,000 ohms when set on the most sensitive (0.6 volt) scale. If it reads 0.14 volts on a circuit powered by a 6-volt battery, the whole circuit resistance is 6 / 0.14 * 6000 = 257,143 ohms. The current is 6 / 257,143 = 0.023 milliamps = 23 microamps. Likewise if it reads 0.04 volts, the resistance is 900,000 ohms and the current 0.003 milliamps or 3 microamps.

Now, this all depends on the resistance of the meter. If his meter resistance is more (likely, and as mine would be on other settings) the current would be even lower. In any case directly measuring or even detecting the current would be difficult.

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Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby inairam » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 am

Jim Becker wrote:0.04 volts can't be much of a drain. Is it really causing a problem? Wouldn't it be lost within the internal loss of the battery itself.


Mine is 0.01 volts every few seconds. Ricky is 4 x what I have.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Clemsonfor
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Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby Clemsonfor » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:31 am

Eugene wrote:
Jim Becker wrote:0.04 volts can't be much of a drain. Is it really causing a problem? Wouldn't it be lost within the internal loss of the battery itself.
Pretty much my thought. There is also a slight bit of line loss voltage.

I had previously suggested checking for the amperage drain.

.14 volt is not much of a loss/battery drain. Actually doesn't indicate anything with out knowing the amp loss.

My thought. Put every thing back in place. Then check for the amp drain from a battery terminal to the battery cable.

I now think we are heading back towards a weak battery.

I was thinking the same. Batteries supposedly discharge at a rate of .1v a month or something they say on a 12v battery right?
I also was thinking your possibly going to have a similar loss for a higher resistance wire but doesn't mean that's draining it. We really need to know amps was my thought as well

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Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby Clemsonfor » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:32 am

inairam wrote:
Jim Becker wrote:0.04 volts can't be much of a drain. Is it really causing a problem? Wouldn't it be lost within the internal loss of the battery itself.


Mine is 0.01 volts every few seconds. Ricky is 4 x what I have.

I am confused maybe here. Are you saying your battery is loosening .01v every few seconds? It would be dead by the end of the day.

inairam
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby inairam » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:44 am

mine is dead overnight. I do not think Ricky stated how fast his friends is going down. I assumed Ricky's voltage numbers were over a time period and a not voltage drop over the length of wire / cable.

I have a new ( last year) start switch, ground cable and battery cable replace unrelated to the discharge. The discharge is new this year.

Ricky did you do a visual on the entire length of the battery to starter cable? I have had a few older cables just have the insulation come off in my hand.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Clemsonfor
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Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby Clemsonfor » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:09 pm

Have y'all looked to see how fast the battery will drain just sitting nothing connected?

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Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby ricky racer » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:21 pm

Guys, I got a PM from a member here who's an Electrical Engineer. He's offered to help me track it down. He's been busy today and I've been busy today so maybe tomorrow we can work through it over the phone. I'll let you know how it goes.
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inairam
5+ Years
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Posts: 2141
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby inairam » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:59 pm

Clemsonfor wrote:Have y'all looked to see how fast the battery will drain just sitting nothing connected?



Temperature: The warmer the environment while a battery is in storage, the faster the rate of self-discharge. For example, a battery being stored at an average temperature of 80℉ will discharge at a rate of 4% per week. Whereas a lead acid battery being stored at 65℉ will only discharge at a rate of approximately 3% per month. https://northeastbattery.com/battery-10 ... batteries/

Q: What is a typical self-discharge rate for a car battery?
A: Any battery will eventually discharge itself. A flooded car battery discharge rate is about 1% per day at room temperature, 0.25% per day at 10 °C (50 °F) and 1.5% per day at 30 °C (86 °F). This self discharge percentage is the percentage of the remaining capacity, so a flooded lead acid battery will still have 50% of its capacity remaining after 6 months. Low-maintenance and sealed batteries have lower discharge rates of less that 0.5% per day and calcium-lead batteries can have a self discharge of less than 2% per month. https://www.powerstream.com/car-battery-faq.htm
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Clemsonfor
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Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm
Zip Code: 29848
Tractors Owned: Yanmar YM2000
Yanmar YM186 (non running)
1952 Farmall Cub
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Location: Greenwood County SC

Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby Clemsonfor » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:11 pm

inairam wrote:
Clemsonfor wrote:Have y'all looked to see how fast the battery will drain just sitting nothing connected?



Temperature: The warmer the environment while a battery is in storage, the faster the rate of self-discharge. For example, a battery being stored at an average temperature of 80℉ will discharge at a rate of 4% per week. Whereas a lead acid battery being stored at 65℉ will only discharge at a rate of approximately 3% per month. https://northeastbattery.com/battery-10 ... batteries/

Q: What is a typical self-discharge rate for a car battery?
A: Any battery will eventually discharge itself. A flooded car battery discharge rate is about 1% per day at room temperature, 0.25% per day at 10 °C (50 °F) and 1.5% per day at 30 °C (86 °F). This self discharge percentage is the percentage of the remaining capacity, so a flooded lead acid battery will still have 50% of its capacity remaining after 6 months. Low-maintenance and sealed batteries have lower discharge rates of less that 0.5% per day and calcium-lead batteries can have a self discharge of less than 2% per month. https://www.powerstream.com/car-battery-faq.htm

That doesn't answer my question :?

The question is how fast does their battery drain without anything connected? The one guy says his battery is dead by morning, if he leaves nothing connected to the battery does it discharge at the rate you list or is it also dead in the morning, or is it dead in 2 days. I'm basically getting at are we sure the battery is healthy.

I do know that batteries self discharge as you leave them, even good batteries do this. This is the reason you want to keep your batteries floating or make sure you put them on a charger every few months to keep them topped up. The longer a battery sits at 100% charge the longer it's life will be .

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2141
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Battery Drain Help Needed

Postby inairam » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:08 am

My battery is healthy from my battery tester and tested disconnected with 0 measured discharge over a 30-40 seconds. It is 1 year old. My issue is with the system on the tractor.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!


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