Touch Control Fluid in Engine

[oldfarmkid]

Hello all. Bought a 1951 Cub last summer with a Woods mower. While mowing a neighbors pasture noticed the fluid lost in the touch control cylinder block equaled the added oil in the engine crankcase. So leaking touch control unit. Question is just which seals in the touch control unit cause this problem ?

Thought I would rebuild the touch control box. Ordered a rebuild kit, watched a video, now I know what Im doing, right. Nope, wrong. As I began to tear down the block (remove the rear cover) noticed what I would call major differences. For instance the safety valve assembly does not contain six pieces as shown in the service manual dated Feb, 1976. It consists of just 4 pieces to include the o-ring down in the block. Also the check valve assembly does not look like the picture in the service manual, or in the videos. Mine has what looks like a large bolt in the center that takes a 3/4 inch socket to fit. The cast part# on the cylinder block is 354383R3 with a casting date of 6/22/W W=51.

Had read the Service Manual I have ( which is the same kindly provided on this site ) would work fine because they are similar. Just not similar enough for me.

Is there a service manual with pic's of my cylinder block, with the parts and pieces that match what I have in front of me ? There are more differences than the ones i've listed. Any help would be appreciated. This thing took me back 40 years, before the internet. When you just tore something apart cold. If a small part was missing, you put it back together with the same part missing. Just trying to avoid those situations that taught me how to curse so very long ago.

Thanks

Tim

[Dale Finch]

If you were losing hydraulic fluid into the engine, chances are you only had a bad/leaking hydraulic pump seal. There is a kit and a HOW TO post for that repair.

http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=44196

But now that you have disassembled the touch control block, you should know there are 2 different rebuild kits for the touch control blocks, depending on your block part number. There are also 2 HOW TO posts for the block rebuilds.

Earlier block:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=89514

and the later block:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=42857

[Crimson Tim]

There are, I believe, two main touch control block styles. Get the part number off the block before ordering your rebuild kit to make sure you get the right parts. I also believe there are how-tos for both styles on the how-to page in the forum.

*However*, there is no passage from the touch control block to the engine. Follow the hydraulic lines from the left side of the block forward to the front left corner of the engine. This is the hydraulic pump, and this is the source of your leak. It needs a rebuild, and it is far easier than the valve block!

[oldfarmkid]

Well Dale, think you hit the bulls eye the first shot. The info I collected stating the cylinder block was causing my issue was wrong. Thinking I'll just put it back together since I didn't do much more than take the rear cover off. It did not leak at all and worked properly till the fluid level went low. Will for sure put in my library all the correct info you sent.

Will purchase pump kit and relocate myself on the right track.

Thanks again Dale. Your dedication to correcting confused new Cub owners is Commendable.

Thanks

Tim

[oldfarmkid]

Also Thanks Crimson Tim.

[Stanton]

Well Dale, think you hit the bulls eye the first shot. The info I collected stating the cylinder block was causing my issue was wrong. Thinking I'll just put it back together since I didn't do much more than take the rear cover off. It did not leak at all and worked properly till the fluid level went low. Will for sure put in my library all the correct info you sent.

Will purchase pump kit and relocate myself on the right track.

Thanks again Dale. Your dedication to correcting confused new Cub owners is Commendable.

Thanks

Tim

You will need to put on a new gasket in order to replace the lid. I cut my own, but you may want to order one, depending on which one you removed.

Rear Cylinder Head: http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/386fp.htm
Bottom Cylinder Block: http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/471fp.htm

[Bob McCarty]

I'd also suggest pulling out the screen and make sure it is clean and hasn't crushed because of debris accumulation.

[Jim Becker]

I'd also suggest pulling out the screen and make sure it is clean and hasn't crushed because of debris accumulation.

I would also remove and clean the orifice screen while it is open. Look at the head (rear cover) for a pipe plug. The orifice screen is in line with that plug. It is unscrewed to remove it.

[oldfarmkid]

All good suggestions. Looks like someone sometime in the past has already been in this block. Both filter screens are clean, both large and small.
Just the tiniest amount of debris on the top back of main screen filter. All looks pretty clean through out. Not what I would have expected after 70 years.

[Glen]

Hi,
2 of the 4 bolts in the Touch Control pump hold the pump onto the engine, the upper left, and lower right bolts, looking ahead from behind the pump.
You can loosen the other 2 bolts while the pump is on the engine, but don't remove them, so the pump doesn't fall apart, before you take it to a clean work bench.
Keep everything inside the pump clean.
Put new Case IH Hy-Tran fluid, or other brand approved fluid, on the parts inside the pump during assembly.

The pump drive gear has a special lock washer on it, to keep the nut from coming off.
You have to straighten the place on it that is bent over 1 of the flats of the nut, to unscrew the nut. Then when you are done, and put the nut on again, you have to bend 1 side of it over 1 of the flats of the nut.
The washer should have a tab that sticks into the keyway of the shaft, if the tab is broken, it needs a new lock washer. There is nothing to keep the washer and nut from turning without the tab on the lock washer.
Below is a listing at TM Tractor for a new lock washer.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/562fp.htm

If the lock washer it has looks good, you can use it again.

Be sure there is a gasket between the pump and the engine.

Below is a post I made for putting fluid in the Touch Control, and removing the air from the system, after you repair the Touch Control.
Be sure to fill it the last time with the arms in the rear, or down position.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106664

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the Touch Control pump, showing the drive gear, nut, and lock washer.

[oldfarmkid]

Got the touch control box back together with new gaskets. Got them in the mail today. Will see if I can get every thing installed back on the cub tomorrow making sure all works as it had. If it does I'll order the pump kit and then wait for parts. Thanks to all again. Shout out to Glen for much needed pump info. I must have googled for all the information I've been given today over 30 times in the past week and every time nothing useful ever came up. To have it all be shared so quickly here is wonderful.

[Glen]

Hi,
Dale posted a good post from the How To section about rebuilding the Touch Control pump above.
I would use that.
I would use fine sandpaper and smooth the shaft where the o ring runs on it.
Sometimes the pump shaft where the o ring runs is worn, and has a groove, if it has a groove, it needs repair.

Below is the pump rebuild kit at TM Tractor, it is genuine Case IH, it says.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/288fp.htm

Below is their page of Hydraulic parts.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/hy_001newparts.htm

I guess you have put the Touch Control unit together again, but here are pages from the Cub parts manual showing the earlier Touch Controls.
They don't all have the parts in the rectangle and square.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 010-02.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 010-03.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 010-04.jpg

[oldfarmkid]

Got everything put back on the cub and all works as it should. So I'm back where I started, also good. Ordered pump rebuild kit, new drive gear lock washer and cylinder block flange gasket. Hopefully the pump shaft is not badly scored. Ran into one issue I had not noticed when I removed the front rock shaft. The connecting rod pin smallest diameter at the end, was almost broken off. With very little effort it did break off. Thought I'd just order one. Looks like they are no longer available. So... till I do locate one, found a bolt in the shop that was the same dia. as the piece that broke off. Drilled about a quarter inch into the remaining pin, tapped it, then threaded the replacement bolt into place with red thread lock. The pin is now two piece instead of one, but it does work. Seems that end of the connecting pin is just used as a bracing point for the control valve and control lever. Hopefully it works till I find a replacement. Either that pin is some tough stuff or my drill bits were garbage. Took a lot of cutting oil and a fair amount of pressure on my little drill press to get down as little as I did. Pin that broke is part# 352010R1. With all the info you folks have been kind enough to share. I'll have a fair amount to review and study till the parts come in.

Thanks

Tim

[Jim Becker]

All that linkage between the control lever, valve, and connecting rod is there for the positional control. That way, setting the hand lever determines the position where the rockshaft stops. The small pin you repaired tells the rest of the linkage where the piston (and rockshaft) is.

If you are like me, a couple years from now you will forget that you repaired the pin and it will still be in there.

[oldfarmkid]

Ha, guessing your right Jim. Will forget about it, and if it breaks I'll forget I jury rigged it that way. And yet cuss who ever did that halfa--ed job.