Good afternoon, all, I hope you are all getting ready for spring. I am working on it, but the grass has already gotten ahead of me due to some issues that have cropped up on my workhorse ‘77. As long as it gets used regularly, it is very dependable. If it sits too long, though, issues start to creep in. Sometimes it doesn’t get enough exercise during the winter, and that’s where I’m at now.
I had some fuel-related issues that took me a bit to get to. Part of the problem ended up being the rubber gas lines had degraded. I just got the carb cleaned out, installed a fresh in-line fuel filter, poured some gas in to the tank and watched it wash a bunch of black crud into the filter. Nuts. Had to re-clean everything again and put new line in. I got it to run ok, but it was way down on power. Also, I could not stop the carb from draining the contents of the fuel tank onto the ground, no matter how many time I cleaned the needle & seat and even after I removed the corrosion & assorted goop that had the float locked up between the ethanol in the gas and a bit of moisture that sat in there.
I think I have my answer, though, after thinking about this.
I looked at this needle long and hard. I did not remember that the point looked like this, but it has been working like a champ for a couple of years so it’s been a long time since I had this carb open. The hole in the tip looked too round, too perfect not to have been factory. And besides, I never found any bits of rubber or Viton or whatever that is anywhere. So I must be remembering it wrong?
The more I think about it though, the more sense it makes. The fact that I can’t stop the needle from leaking tells me there’s an issue with the needle or float. The float has been set right and working for years. Sure it may have sprung a leak, but there’s no fluid in it, so I doubt it. So I’m pretty positive the missing bit of the tip is critical for sealing nor matter how intentional it looks. I guess this is more ethanol damage?
So, question: are the needles and seats matched pairs? I have a couple spare carbs, If I swap out a new needle, to I need to swap the seat, too? FWIW, being a 1977, these are Zeniths.
Another question: Could this probably over-rich condition also be why it is down on power? I normally mow 3 acres weekly from March through October with this tractor. Right now, it can’t handle more than a few individual blades of grass without stalling. Once running, it seems pretty smooth and normal. Just under-powered. It smokes pretty good, but then it always did, no not sure if anything has changed there.
I’m hoping I can blame some of this on the needle as well.
It’s been mostly sitting for the last few months since it went off, so I will go over and lube the whole throttle and governor linkage to make sure that is free. Also check the linkage adjustment, since I have had the carb off. Though when the carb has been off before, I have never had to alter the linkage before. And also, it started losing power during a period when the carb wasn’t touched.
The other issue I am dealing with is…. I’m not sure. I suspect the alternator.
As I said, the tractor has been mostly sitting for a few months. The battery was pretty dead. When I went to jump start it recently, everything went as expected at first. Cleaned a few connections, ran a bit rough for at first & had to finesse the choke a bit, then everything started to smooth out, choke fully opened, and everything pretty smooth after a couple minutes. I figured I would let it run for a bit to charge the battery. I flicked the switch to trigger the alternator, and got what I thought was a belt squeal. That makes some sense. The belts are old, stretched, and I am running out of adjustment room. No big deal. It had started that a bit the last time it had been in use. Now, however, it kept squealing. I ran it maybe 5-10 minutes, then shut it down to see which belt was loose and so tighten it up. Except both belts were actually still pretty nicely tight from the last time I adjusted them. Not a lot of deflection in either one. I didn’t measure, but I’d guess 1/4”-3/8” deflection. And stranger still, neither one was at all hot.
I checked the oil in the fan hub. It accepted a little, but not much. It has not been that long since the last time I oiled it.
So I am thinking the belt squeal wasn’t a belt squeal, but a bearing in the alternator instead. I am pretty sure it *is* charging. The battery was quite dead at first, and later whine it was running, my meter jumped up into the normal area. I didn’t look closely enough at it to see if it was reading 12V or 14 V, but since the battery was so dead a few minutes before, the fact that the meter was in the right vicinity I took to mean it was charging just fine.
So anyway, the obvious next steps are going to be to take the hood off, take the belts off and see how everything spins. I’ll take the alternator in to get tested which should either confirm or rule out the bearing idea if it is not obvious spinning by hand. If a bearing is starting to drag, that could suck some power, too.
Obviously, I’ll rule out the easier things first, but is there any way the governor could have been the source of the noise?
Where is the best source for belts? They need replacing regardless. When I looked, no one locally had them in stock, and they were pretty pricey for the little belts that they are. I know people on here have talked about turning over the engine by turning the fan by hand. I have never been able to do that with this tractor, even after freshly tightening the belts, so maybe they are the only issue after all. But no heat after slipping for several minutes???
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and ideas as always. Happy prepping for Spring, and I hope you are all done with snow for the year!
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Fighting a couple issues on my ‘77
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Re: Fighting a couple issues on my ‘77
needle and seat come as a set, fuel line should be metal, not rubber
fan belt gates part # TR 24315
alternator I have seen a few different ones than what the book shows, take the old part # off it, and cross it or a good parts store has a belt gauge to measure it,
fan belt gates part # TR 24315
alternator I have seen a few different ones than what the book shows, take the old part # off it, and cross it or a good parts store has a belt gauge to measure it,
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
- Zip Code: 32736
- Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub
So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story. - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Fighting a couple issues on my ‘77
tst wrote:needle and seat come as a set, fuel line should be metal, not rubber
fan belt gates part # TR 24315
alternator I have seen a few different ones than what the book shows, take the old part # off it, and cross it or a good parts store has a belt gauge to measure it,
I know you guys prefer the metal lines and why (fire w/proximity to exhaust, degradation), but I was under the impression the long stripes came with rubber? In any case, the rubber is new now, and coming from a pony tank hanging off the side, so, well away from the exhaust. I would prefer a steel line, too, but haven’t wanted spend the time to work out new fittings yet.
Is there anything else that the needle and seat need to match to (ie, orifice?) Or can I freely swap them around between carbs as long as I keep the needle/seat combinations together?
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Re: Fighting a couple issues on my ‘77
factory gas line is metal, needles and seat should stay together yes
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Re: Fighting a couple issues on my ‘77
FWIW, 5/16 steel brake line from an auto parts store works well for fabricating a fuel line and fittings (1/2 x 20 bolt threads) are readily available.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
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Re: Fighting a couple issues on my ‘77
Contact McDonald Carb & Ignition for Zenith replacement parts. 706-367-4179, ask for Morgan.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 5004
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
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Re: Fighting a couple issues on my ‘77
Don McCombs wrote:Contact McDonald Carb & Ignition for Zenith replacement parts. 706-367-4179, ask for Morgan.
Yup, excellent source for knowledge also (not just cub/IH).
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
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