PTO Shaft seal part match

[marshall]

I'm rebuilding the PTO on my 1950 Cub. Got a new PTO shaft and bearing with snap ring but not sure about the bearing seal.

The part I'm looking for would seem to be #12 in this diagram (The legend calls it "bearing grease shield") http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-1411%20Service%20Manual%20for%20Cubs%20and%20Lo-boy%20Tractors/Section%206A%20-%20Power%20Take-Off%20And%20Belt%20Pulley/Page-06A-03.jpg

From the drawing it seems to have a slightly conical shape. I'm not seeing anything that visually matches on TM tractor but there is one part that is labeled PTO bearing seal that I wonder if the right one.

Can anyone confirm if this seal http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/482fp.htm is what goes in spot of #12?

Also, I'm noticing it's a bit difficult to get that bearing onto its correct location on the shaft. Guessing that some light taps on the inner ring with greased shaft is how to get it home?

[Bill V in Md]

Can anyone confirm if this seal http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/482fp.htm is what goes in spot of #12?
Also, I'm noticing it's a bit difficult to get that bearing onto its correct location on the shaft. Guessing that some light taps on the inner ring with greased shaft is how to get it home?

,

No that seal in the referenced TM Tractor link fits into the PTO bearing retainer. Check out the PTO rebuild in the post by Dale Finch in this link:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100075

[Dale Finch]

This is the PTO Shaft seal you need (available from TM Tractors or your local NAPA store):
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/482fp.htm
#3 below:

[marshall]

Looks like the two answers above are in conflict. I'm pretty certain that the referenced part (482fp - pto shaft seal on TM) is a seal that goes into the PTO bearing retainer as part #3 which is external to the PTO gear case. The bearing seal I'm looking for is the one on the other side of the PTO shaft bearing closer to the shifter clutch - #12. Seems odd that this seal neither came with the bearing I ordered from TM nor is something like it on the site. From the looks of the PTO I took out of my tractor, the bearings weren't sealed with anything on this side either. There is a good grease in there. Perhaps this is OK as long as they are well greased, because it all must be above the level of oil in the case?

[Glen]

Hi,
Number 12 in the parts manual pic is a shield that has a curved shape, and fits in front of the ball bearing.
It is sheet metal thickness.
It is not part of the bearing.
It is to help hold grease in the ball bearing.
The shield should have been there when you removed the PTO from the Cub.
Are u saying it is not there.
TM Tractor doesn't have it in their listings.

Below is a page from the Cub parts manual with descriptions of part of the numbers in the pages above.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-15.jpg

Number 3 is the shaft oil seal, and has rubber in it. It goes at the rear of the PTO near the rear splines.
You should replace it while it is apart especially if it leaked any.
Dale posted the seal above.

Good that you bought a new shaft and ball bearing.
The bearing usually fits tight on the shaft.
It is supposed to be pressed on, you may need to take the shaft and bearing to a shop with a press, and have it pressed on.
Drive it on the shaft only by putting force on the part of the bearing next to the shaft, don't hammer or put force on the outer part of the bearing.

Read Dale's PTO post that Bill posted above, it shows the shield, number 12 in the parts pic.

Yes, the PTO is much above the level of the oil in the transmission housing.

The mower pulley will fit tighter on the new PTO shaft splines, if the old shaft had worn splines.
If the mower pulley has worn splines, when you have a new shaft is a good time to put on a new pulley, then the pulley will fit tight.
The pulley is supposed to be tight on the shaft when the splines on the shaft and in the pulley are good.
I think you have a Cub 22 Mower, be sure to tighten the bolt through the pulley, so it tightens on the shaft. I think some pulleys were made without a bolt through the pulley.
I don't know which pulley you have.
The splines get worn on both parts from running them when loose.

Below is a listing for a new pulley for the Cub 22 Mower, they cost some money.
There is also a 4" pulley, you could measure your pulley OD and see what it is.
A 1950 mower should have the 4 1/2" pulley, the listing says.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/sm/589fp.htm

[marshall]

Glen, as always, thanks for the helpful and detailed reply. Indeed, the existing PTO shaft came out with no seal covering the bearing. The bearing itself is in good shape with grease in it which is why I'm wondering if I can do without and just make sure I grease it. After putting the new clutch on my old PTO shaft I decided it wasn't smoothly operating and that it's time to get a new shaft, bearings, and pulley belt. So this will be a completely new PTO once its all back together. I'm going to be much more careful about engaging the PTO only when the main shaft has fully stopped spinning which may have to do with getting my clutch fully adjusted. I'll put in one more order (my third) from TM and get that #3 outer shaft oil seal.

The pulley does have a bolt through it that is a bit rusted and creaky. The cotter pin seemed to be doing the real work of keeping it on the shaft. The bolt seems like its supposed to crimp the pulley onto the shaft but the thickness of that pulley collar is so thick I can't imagine that bolt having much effect.

It's interesting about this grease seal. I went on Steiner and they sell a PTO bearing kit that includes 2 snap rings, a bearing, and the outer (#3) seal but not the inner (#12). So it does seem that this part must be considered unnecessary.

[Don McCombs]

I think what is confusing some is that the bearing shield is being called a seal. It is not a seal in the usual sense of the term. Here is a photo of the shield and snap ring. you can clearly see that it does not function as a seal.

[tldec50]

Just a swag but on your post on July 19 pto/gear grinding ,the third pic in that post shows a foreign part with scrub marks about 11 oclock.That might be the seal you are looking for which goes over the bearing held in place with the snapring.That keeps the grease inside the bearing .

[Don McCombs]

That does look somewhat like the shield.

[Glen]

The bolt seems like its supposed to crimp the pulley onto the shaft but the thickness of that pulley collar is so thick I can't imagine that bolt having much effect.

Hi,
Yes, the bolt pulls the 2 sides of the pulley together and tightens it onto the shaft.
It works well when the pulley splines and the PTO shaft splines are unworn, it only has to squeeze the pulley sides together slightly.
I have a Cub 22 Mower with that style of pulley, it has worked well for the 50 years I've had the Cub.
The splines are unworn so it tightens like IH designed it.
If you are buying a new pulley, put in a new bolt in it too.
The Cub 22 mower parts manual says it's a 3/8" x 2 1/4", coarse threads, with a lock washer and nut.
If you can't find 2 1/4" long, a 2 1/2" long will work.
Buy grade 5 or more.
NAPA has good bolts.
The manual says the cotter key through the pulley is 3/16" x 2 1/4" long.

It's interesting about this grease seal. I went on Steiner and they sell a PTO bearing kit that includes 2 snap rings, a bearing, and the outer (#3) seal but not the inner (#12). So it does seem that this part must be considered unnecessary.

The part is a shield, it just helps hold grease in the bearing.
The pic Don posted above shows what it is.
It would normally be there, and not lost, and then used over again, it doesn't get worn from use.

I guess you meant the shield was not there under the snap ring when you took the snap ring out.
Someone that had the PTO out before you probably left the shield off, if it is not there.
The PTO could be used without the shield if you don't have one.
JP Tractor Salvage at the bottom of the page might have a used shield they would sell, I don't know if they take parts off of a PTO unit.

Just a swag but on your post on July 19 pto/gear grinding ,the third pic in that post shows a foreign part with scrub marks about 11 oclock.That might be the seal you are looking for which goes over the bearing held in place with the snapring.That keeps the grease inside the bearing .

No, the shield in that pic is supposed to be where it is, it covers the bearing in the rear of the transmission, on the clutch shaft.
His pic of the shield is in his post beginning on July 19, in his post on July 23, at 1:58 pm.

[Glen]

If you want a new shield, look online for the IH part number of it.
It is a 351272R2.
Below is a listing for one, it is aftermarket, it says.
I don't know anything about this one.

https://aftermarket.express/case-new-holland/351272r2

Case IH has a listing for it, I called my local dealer and he said it is still available.
You could call a local dealer near you and ask, just tell them the number of it.
Maybe the dealer is far away from you.
Here they let me pay for things on the phone with a credit card, and send them to me.

[Don McCombs]

This does not look like the appropriate part...

https://www.messicks.com/part/351272r2/retainer

[Glen]

Hi,
You are right Don, the pic looks different.
The Cub parts manual TC-37F shows the numbers of the parts.
It is number 12 in the pic on the 1st page.
On the 2nd page 12 is a 351272R2.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-14.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-15.jpg

I don't know why the pic at Case IH is different, either the pic is wrong for the part, or they changed something.

The Messic's listing Don posted says the R2 replaces the R1.

Below is a statement from a listing online for 351272R1.

Case 351272R1 This part is no longer available, it has been replaced with an updated item. Replaced By 351272R2 RETAINER

I wonder if the R2 has a bigger center hole, to work with the newer PTO shaft, that uses the snap ring to hold the bearing in place.
Dale had to file the shield's center hole to make it bigger on the older style shield, so it would fit on with the newer snap ring.

[Jim Becker]

The bent tab on the part in Messick's picture makes it look unusable. Makes me think it is the wrong picture.

Wouldn't a larger hole make it unusable on the early shaft? If so, they shouldn't have used the old number and advanced the "R". It should have had a new number.