Implement weight

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Jimerjam
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Implement weight

Postby Jimerjam » Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:27 pm

My house cannot handle my massive amperage welding machine it's big and heavy and I need to move it around more and I don't want to have to deal with a trailer. So I am planning to mount the wider to the back of the tractor along with a pto generator, the welder is around 1100 pounds, I know I will have to make a Costcome mounting for it, as I am quite sure the drawbar can't handle it, I know I will have to use all 16 of the bolt holes on both sides and use more mountings near the middle, most likely with some front counterweights, I want to know how much weight the cubs frame can handle safely and for the long term

staninlowerAL
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Re: Implement weight

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:25 am

:tractor: JMHO, You are expecting quite a lot from the 9 ponies available from the C60 engine. Controlling a consistent amperage output is going to be a challenge. Others may disagree. :surrender:
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

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MiCarl
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Re: Implement weight

Postby MiCarl » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:04 am

9 HP = 6711 watts. 6700 watts @ 240V = 28 amps. That's assuming 100% efficiency. You'd probably be lucky to get 20 amps.

Won't run a lot of welder.
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Re: Implement weight

Postby Slim140 » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:14 am

The cub pto also spins backwards from other tractors, don’t forget that.
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?

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inairam
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Re: Implement weight

Postby inairam » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:04 am

i would look at a nursery wagon from tractor supply for the welder as opposed to trying to put 1100 pounds on the back of a cub. Even if you could lift it ( very big if) that weight will lift the front off the ground. The tractor is only about 1700 pounds with about 300 pounds per front wheel.

I think the nursery wagons are rated at 1400 pounds. it is not a trailer so it is easier to move by hand and hook up to the cub. I have a large honda generator on one https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... ility-cart

you will not get the power you need from a cub. Maybe get a larger wagon for the welder with room for a large enough generator to run it. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools ... 7661_47661

What is the amp draw of this thing?
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Implement weight

Postby SamsFarm » Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:34 am

I have heard of Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, and even Forney, but not massive amperage welding machine.

Does your welder have a brand name, model?

What is the recomended input requirements?

Single phase? Three phase?

Is your house hooked to a utility or are you making your own electricity?

What it the rating of your main breaker in your breaker box if your on a utility from a public utility company?

This is in the Cub forum so I assume you are talking about a Cub.

The Fast-Hitch Cub platform carrier is rated at 400# (if I remember correctly) with proper front wheel weights.

I am guessing that 1100 pounds on the rear of a Cub without some sort of training wheels would be sitting with the front wheels in the air.

A small wagon or trailer would be more appropriate.

Edit;
A 6700 watt Cub powered welder would be making 279 amps @ 24 volts.

More than enough for most of peoples welding.

1/8" stick rod burns around 125 amps!

Jimerjam
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Re: Implement weight

Postby Jimerjam » Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:14 pm

It's a Hobart cyber tig 300 240 volts 98 amps single phase
Training wheels are impractical due to the quality of roads in my area. Would a counterweight on the front work?
I think the machine requires an external water tank, so I wonder if I could use that as a counterweight.

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Re: Implement weight

Postby Eugene » Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:24 pm

Have a Woodmaxx backhoe drawbar mounted on a WD Allis Chalmers. Weights 1400 lbs. Have added 450 lbs weight to the tractor's front to keep it on the ground. Still a tad light on the front end when going up a grade.

External water tank. Gallons and/or total weight?

Need a bigger tractor or a trailer. Actually a bigger tractor and a trailer if you are going to tow that much weight on roads because Cubs brakes aren't great.

3/4 ton pickup truck?
I have an excuse. CRS.

staninlowerAL
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Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
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Re: Implement weight

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:43 pm

Adding 1100 lb welder, estimated 100 lb for a 150a pto generator, and attachment apparatus to connect it to the tractor and you have probably doubled the weight of a stock 1948 FCub. As Eugene pointed out, the brakes are not adequate to handle that kind of load. You're asking for trouble, IMHO. Here's an info manual that shows what the engineers had in mind for the Cub to handle. http://www.savethecub.com/implement_weights.pdf :hattip: Stan
Last edited by staninlowerAL on Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
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inairam
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Posts: 2850
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Implement weight

Postby inairam » Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:52 pm

Jimerjam wrote:It's a Hobart cyber tig 300 240 volts 98 amps single phase
Training wheels are impractical due to the quality of roads in my area. Would a counterweight on the front work?
I think the machine requires an external water tank, so I wonder if I could use that as a counterweight.



you have a 48. the early cubs have notoriusly weak front englne mounting flange. the egine b lock is part of the frame. you are asking too much of the cub putting weight on the front and the back. even if it did not break it you probible would have a very hard time steering. think you need a farm truck


by the way 100 amps at 240 v is 24kw. that is whole house generator
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
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Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

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Re: Implement weight

Postby SamsFarm » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:13 pm

Well, now that is not as high as amperage as I was thinking. Lol

But still way more than a Cub will ever power with a pto generator.

You will need a 50 hp tractor with a 24,000 watt 240 vac generator to power that Hobart of yours running at maximum capacity!

I can see no reason why a house on utility electric can not power that.

Keep in mind it will only draw 98 amps on a 240 vac circuit if your are welding at max capicity of 300 amps output.

You just need the proper sized wire and a breaker installed in your breaker box!

I think if you are needing a portable welder, you ought to look into getting a self contained gas (or diesel) drive welder.

A lincoln GXT 250 gas drive has the ability to do stick, mig and tig if you buy the relative attachments.

Jimerjam
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall cub

Re: Implement weight

Postby Jimerjam » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:45 pm

:surrender:
I've decided to take my own advice and listen to experts, so, that plan is out the window. Thank you for the advice. To answer your questions I can't run it on my house because I don't have a spare outlet, and 240 scares the shit out of me. Local codes require a licensed electrician to do any major additions like that, and I don't have that kind of money. As for the self contained welder generator, well they are expensive, I am getting this welder for a steal, and I dislike them for personal reasons. I was just wondering if I could run this kind of machine from an engine I ready had, I DONT want to buy a generator just for the welder. I will look at other options.

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Re: Implement weight

Postby Don McCombs » Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:08 pm

For the amount of money that you would spend rigging the welder and generator onto the Cub, you could get an electrician to install a 240 outlet for you.
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Re: Implement weight

Postby Eugene » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:24 pm

Don McCombs wrote:For the amount of money that you would spend rigging the welder and generator onto the Cub, you could get an electrician to install a 240 outlet for you.
Ditto.

Most local codes permit property owners to do yourself install new electrical circuits -- and plumbing and carpentry, etc.. There would be a number of questions to answer before the outlet is installed; such as location, breaker panel size, number of open spaces in the panel, amp service to the property, distance and wire size for the amp service to the recepticle, etc..

It's not difficult or dangerous to install a 240 volt outlet. Just shut off the main circuit breaker at the electric panel.

Ask one of you electric inclined friends to help.

Just my thought. If the electric code absolutely forbid a do it yourself installation - I would do it any way and not inform the authorities or the electric company.
I have an excuse. CRS.

SamsFarm
501 Club
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Posts: 1853
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
CS Bell No. 60 Grain Mill on a unmodified Fast Hitch Disk hitch prong
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: Implement weight

Postby SamsFarm » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:25 pm

Eugene wrote:
Just my thought. If the electric code absolutely forbid a do it yourself installation - I would do it any way and not inform the authorities or the electric company.


Amen to that!

I could say a lot on this matter, but someone might take it as political, and it would probably get into religious too! :lol:

But for some unknown reason they frown upon that here!
:||):


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