Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973
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Lt.Mike
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Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Lt.Mike » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:04 pm

Ok here are some pics of the results.
Relocating the bottom bracket kicked the frame 3-1/2' forward and you can see it provided plenty of room.
You can see the before and after....
Before...
Image

After...
Image

Edit: You might notice I replaced the bolts for pins where the blade connects to the frame. Much, much better.
Image

A closer look at the bracket I made. Its not gusseted yet and will be stronger when I do. this was 2 x 1/4" angle iron, the same width as the frame but not as thick. I would use 2-1/2" x 5/16" or 3/8" angle next time. Once this is gusseted I don't think it'll bend or break but if it does that's what I'll do.

Image

Here's some shots of the grader blade.
Fazzio's Iron Works sells the plate steel in 6,8,10, and 12" widths and 5 or 10' lengths.
I asked for 5' (60") 8 x 3/16" plate steel and expected to have to trim an inch off but it was an exact match to the blade ! :)
I drilled the holes, removed the burrs, then rounded the corners and dulled the edges because I'm bound to walk into it. :roll:

Image

Image

If this were a Cub blade it would be done because they are flat but the A60 snow extension follows the curve of the blade.
I plan to take an extra Cub blade I have and lay it across the shop press to use as a mold to form the curve.
We'll see how that goes. It may be simple but its cool to replicate a factory part from scratch.
I brought the pins up one hole on the blade to the center and it has no problem contacting the ground now in fact when it wouldn't touch before it lifts the front wheels now.
Last edited by Lt.Mike on Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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inairam
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Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
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Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
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Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby inairam » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:38 pm

Lt.Mike wrote:
inairam wrote:Mike

Please post some pictures of the mod.

I mounted the blade today. Full right yaw of the blade I have a carriage bolt that may catch. I have two holes showing on the axel and have the larger front tires.

How big are those tires? I have the 15 x 5.00 fronts on mine.


This is a 140 with larger tires and rims. It has 11.2 x 24 on the back and I think 16" up front. I have a 130 and a 140 with the 9.5x 24 and 15". The tires on this one are noticeably bigger.

I may do this. I think it will be easier to mount plus move it forward.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Urbish
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Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Urbish » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:38 pm

Looks like a winning solution there, Mike. I agree that you will probably want to weld in some gussets on that piece of angle, but this oughta be a solid solution that will last for a very long time. Nice work, and thanks for sharing photos!
Jim

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Lt.Mike
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Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Lt.Mike » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:15 pm

Urbish, thank you! :hattip:
As for sharing photos, their not the "how too's" Dale puts up but I'm trying.
What can I say? She's a hard act to follow ! :lol:

Inairam, this had 9.5's on the rear when I brought it home but I swapped them for 11.2's that I had on my A. The A has 4.00 fronts which look better with the 9.5's anyway.
The 2 x 1/4" angle I used will stay as I have sweat equity into it :) but when you make yours go with the 2-1/2" angle as it is thicker/stronger.
As for being easier to mount :roll: I guess you already noticed how heavy this thing is. :shock:
I used a ratchet strap hooked to the top of the lifting lever then the frame to lift the plow frame up to where i could start the bolts. I don't mustle things around like I used to. :(
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

inairam
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Posts: 2500
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby inairam » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:57 am

Lt.Mike wrote: I guess you already noticed how heavy this thing is. :shock: :(


Well the 54 blade I manhandle to move it. This I had to think.

BTW in the manuals, which I think shows an A, the blade looks to have plenty of clearance. In real life, the distance is much shorter. I wonder what the issue is.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Lt.Mike
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Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
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1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:50 am

inairam wrote:
Lt.Mike wrote: I guess you already noticed how heavy this thing is. :shock: :(


Well the 54 blade I manhandle to move it. This I had to think.

BTW in the manuals, which I think shows an A, the blade looks to have plenty of clearance. In real life, the distance is much shorter. I wonder what the issue is.

As Jim said I think widening the front either by flipping the wheels themselves on the hub or by extending the axles is the answer.
Other implements require it but they don’t mention it in the operators manual (???).
I’ve got to go back in the dozens of pics I have of SA’s with the blade mounted and see if there’s a clue there. Cub blades are easier to come across but it’s not like I can find another SA in my area with one mounted I can look over.
Until I figure out why it didn’t work the way it was (and I’m sure it’ll be obvious and simple :roll:) this solution will work. Best part of what I did doesn’t modify a factory part and is easily reverted back to it’s original configuration.
Now I have to finish the snow extension and fabricate some skids for it.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2500
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby inairam » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:40 am

I keep looking at the pic from the manual you posted. I am no CSI photo expert, but they may have used some darkroom techniques ( before photoshop) to add the blade to a tractor picture they had. The pic shows the axle all the way in but plenty of room in front of the tire. Also the tractor looks to have a heavy-duty axel

I think it may be a composite image and the scale of at least part of the blade in the picture may be off. The view may be distorted or scale off because it is an isometric view.

Either way, the clearance issue should be mentioned in the manual.
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When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Lt.Mike
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Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Lt.Mike » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:01 am

Oh there’s tons of room when the blade is in its center hole And looked much like the picture does but put the blade all the way to one side and turn the wheel into it and that’s where the problem lies. In had the blade on mine for a couple weeks thinking I was ready for snow, I wasn’t. Rick Prentice said the Cub uses an 8” ram for power angling and figured the A60 would use a 10” ram. So I wheeled out the tractor and angled the blade to see what the reach would be and measure it. I thought that looks close, will the ram and the tire connect? I turned the wheel and the tire hit the frame. That’s where all this started.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

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Lt.Mike
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Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
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1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Lt.Mike » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:06 am

There’s an interesting thing to note in the photo, the front wheels have double stacked weights.
That seems to drive the point home for needing front weights when plowing to aid in steering if it’s shown in a factory manual.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

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Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Dh2jr » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:29 am

Nice job in getting your clearance straightened out. BTW can i ask how much your extension cost?
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Lt.Mike
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Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Lt.Mike » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:10 pm

Dh2jr wrote:Nice job in getting your clearance straightened out. BTW can i ask how much your extension cost?

It was 13” of angle iron of which I bought a 10’ section. I was going to buy a 5’ piece but they said they had a 10’ piece that had light rust on it and they could make me a deal on it.
Hmmm, given an image of the plow in my minds eye, ya that’s a “little” rusty too :lol: so ok how much? $13.88. :)
If you have the tools and welder on hand it’s pretty cheap. I’ll post a pic of it primed and installed. The rusty metal primer blends better with the old paint than bright red paint would.

Edit: Oh, :oops: the snow extension :roll: OK ... it's 3/16" thick (I went with the same as thickness as a factory Cub extension) 8" x 60" plate steel and was $18.98. It was great that when I asked for a 5' piece, I got a piece that was exactly 5' ! That saved me work trimming it to length.
Of course I still had to drill the holes. The factory holes are punched and square. You can use a small file to square them off or just bolt it to the back of the blade like I did.

Here are the pics of the bracket done and in place.
My welds could be prettier but their solid. Each mating surface was ground back to get a nice deep penetration with the weld. (not a surface weld)
I use a 90 degree welding magnet to hold the piece in place with a small gap between the two surfaces until its tacked into place then I fill it in.

Image

Image
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

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Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Dh2jr » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:26 pm

Wow looks good. Thinking you did a great job there and the price was right
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Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Nelson 634 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:58 pm

I've been following this thread with some interest as I have a 100 with this blade. I don't recall a problem with the tires, but you can never get too much information. I like the last picture of the bracket you made. Nice job by the way, but something hit me. Repeatedly I have heard and read of not being too rough with these blades as not to break a part of the castings. Furthermore there are pictures and descriptions of alterations to reinforce the castings to protect from damage. I sat and looked at that picture for a while. Something hit me. Are we looking at protecting castings from the wrong direction? Vertical bolts as shear pins? They shear off instead of breaking a casting. I don't know if a grade 2 would be strong enough but I'll bet one of the engineers here know the answer. Just a wild idea that hit me. By the way I hate shear pins. Not because they work but because I never have them when I need them. Am I crazy or is there some merit to this idea.

P.S. A Cub would also benefit from this possibility.
Walter

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Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Stanton » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:00 pm

Mike, your angle iron gussets are where I'd put them. Good job, IMO. The whole setup appears to be a serious threat to any snow you may get.

Nice! :tractor:
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Re: Interference issue between tire and grader blade.

Postby Lt.Mike » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:08 pm

The bolts I use are the grade 5 green nuts and bolts from tractor supply. I use the grade 8 gold washers with them. I just bought 1-1/2” 1/2” stainless carriage bolts from Lowe’s today for the snow extension. It’s a major production at the cash register ringing that up, counting parts and part numbers for each. :roll:
Buying bolts couldn’t be easier than what tractor supply does, anything green in one bag, gold in another, pay by weight and it seems a lot cheaper.
I doubt I’d ever see them work as a shear pin. I don’t plow fast because if you hit something hard enough to bend of shear a part you can get hurt bad. The only real cast part in that equation is the bolster and you don’t want to break that.
As I’ve said before the arms of reaching back from the blade get bent upward in an arch and I’ve got to believe it’s because these tractors have weight behind them, more power and folks are being rough with them.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"


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