Shims in the Transmission 140

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973
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inairam
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Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby inairam » Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:11 am

A few months back I asked some questions about the trans. Well when I took off the shifter the "oil slinger" gear was all chewed up and one of the bearings had a lot of play. I got it all apart now I collecting parts to put it back together.

I am not clear on how to decide on the shims to use. I have what I took out but I do not know that they were correct. I read the manual but could use some help.

Thank you
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Super A
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Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby Super A » Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:47 am

Pete on Just a Few Acres Farm has been restoring a Super C. Some of the stuff in this video will be applicable to the 140 transmission. Long story short, some of what you do when setting up the shims is trial and error.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r3i9e__Qwg

thanks
Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
Celebrating 75 years of the Super A: 1947-2022

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2868
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby inairam » Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:35 am

Al, Thannks good video. I also just found out that Messicks does not have the shims. Any sources on the shims?
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Super A
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Posts: 5254
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: Collector of Super As, Corn Pickers, and a buncha other junk. Even a Cub now and then...
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Jacksonville area

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby Super A » Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:39 am

inairam wrote:Al, Thannks good video. I also just found out that Messicks does not have the shims. Any sources on the shims?


I'd start with what you have. They may be enough to get it set back up. Just for fun I went and looked and Messicks shows the shims on the countershaft--part #s 47284D, 47285D, 47286D, and 50493D as available, as well as the shims for the differential, but they'd have to order them.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
Celebrating 75 years of the Super A: 1947-2022

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2868
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby inairam » Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:21 am

Super A wrote:
inairam wrote:Al, Thannks good video. I also just found out that Messicks does not have the shims. Any sources on the shims?


I'd start with what you have. They may be enough to get it set back up. Just for fun I went and looked and Messicks shows the shims on the countershaft--part #s 47284D, 47285D, 47286D, and 50493D as available, as well as the shims for the differential, but they'd have to order them.

Al


I ordered them and got an email

"Hello, Thank you for your order!
I am sorry to report that following part number(s) have been discontinued without replacement by the manufacturer and are no longer available from any other of our sources. "

That happens a lot with Messicks.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Jim Becker
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Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:03 pm

Almost all the variation from part to part is in the cast housings. Bearings are very close from one to another and the machined shafts are pretty good. Bottom line, if you are reusing the same housing and differential bearing retainers, the original stacks of shims will be very close. There is a good chance that is exactly what you will need. Be sure to keep the differential bearing retainers on the original side.

Gary Dotson
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52 Cockshutt 20 unrestored
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49 Leader "D" (Princess)
49 Leader "D" very rough
48 Leader "D" unrestored
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Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:40 am

I agree with Jim! When doing differential work, about 90% of jobs used the original shim stack on re-assembly.

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2868
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby inairam » Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:54 am

Gary Dotson wrote:I agree with Jim! When doing differential work, about 90% of jobs used the original shim stack on re-assembly.


My only problem is some are damaged
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2868
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby inairam » Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:00 pm

also one of the bearings pulled out is marked IH ST-245 but it is not in my parts list nor on 140 parts list on Messick's site. I searched Messicks and it was discontinued.
Attachments
st245.png
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Jim Becker
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Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:07 pm

On shins, there is damaged and then there is damaged. A little bit isn't going to hurt anything. They don't need to be oil-tight, just need to take up the right amount of space. Is that the side bearing for the differential? If so, try ST202. In any case, use the numbers listed in the parts catalogs.

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2868
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby inairam » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:09 pm

Jim, I am using the parts catalog. I just noticed the part did not match the book. I think that is the ST246 listing

Below is the quote I got for the bearing place we use at work with alternate part numbers. I used the part numbers and the messick site list dimensions so I sent both to them
Attachments
bearing.png
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2868
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby inairam » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:59 pm

This is what was making the noise. The oil slinger ( aluminum ) decided to get itself chewed up.
Attachments
gear1.jpg
geartwo.jpg
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

tst
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Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby tst » Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:48 pm

many times I find replacement bearings by measurement, lots of the old #s no longer cross over

Gary Dotson
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 5719
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:20 am
Zip Code: 43358
Tractors Owned: 48 Cub Diesel (Cubota)
53 Cockshutt 20 restored (Shooter)
52 Cockshutt 20 unrestored
47 Leader "B" (Herckie)
49 Leader "D" (Princess)
49 Leader "D" very rough
48 Leader "D" unrestored
Kubota B6200E
Kubota B6200HST
Kubota B8200HST-D
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: OH West Mansfield

Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby Gary Dotson » Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:56 am

I have found that IH often assigned their own numbers to industry standard bearings. The numbers in your quote contain such numbers, 6206, 6207 and 6209 are all common numbers. You can google or eBay those numbers and find many brands and sources. Last week I had a friends CIH compact tractor in with a failed bearing in the front wheel. That bearing was over $40 from messicks. Measuring the bearings I found one was a 6206, the other was a 6207, which I found(in a quality brand) for $12, shipping included, on EBay. I keep the 6206 on the shelf, it fits lots of stuff.

Jim Becker
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Re: Shims in the Transmission 140

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:03 pm

If you go to Messick's and look up ST232, you find they list 123 other part numbers it replaces (and the list doesn't include ST245). Thay also say it fits 1211 models!


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