Winter storage; To Stabil or not to Stabil?

[BigBill]

Ok with winter approaching us soon what do you do with winter storage with your Cub cadet?

I run my int154 cub/jeep tractor all winter but i'm thinking of my 4 cub cadets that are going to sit. I just got all 4 running decent too finally.

What do you do? Any thoughts? I figure maybe you do something different than i do thats better.

I know its important to change the oil before storage.

With motorcycles(fourstrokes) we would change the motor oil and full the gas tank with gas and add Stabil to the fuel and run it so it gets into the carbs then park them. We would put a "battery tender" on the batterires too. Once a month we would start up each bike and let it run and warm up. The bike in the spring was a little sluggish but by the second tank of gas it would clear up. I'm not fond of stabil but is there another way except draining the gas completely?

BTW; One year I didn't start up my bike the carbs had problems even though i put in Stabil the bike sat all winter. My start up method once a month seemed to be the best way to go.

[gitractorman]

Bill,
Definitely STABIL. Matter of fact, I'm in the mode of treating each 5-gallon can that I purchase, because with so many tractors around, I never know how long it will take to actually burn out a tank of gas. The gas you are purchasing now will go bad in about 60 days, so it is easy to let it sit in a tractor for that long.

Later,
Bill

[Merk]

I'm with gitractorman. I run Stabil year round in all my small motors. Been doing this for 4 years now with no problems. I can tell a difference in the way my small motors run after gas is a month old. Any gas that I have left at the end of the month is dump in my truck.

In addition to Stabil I turn gas off at the tank and run carb dry. The battery will be removed and place on a board in a warm spot.

[Don McCombs]

My routine is pretty much the same as Merk's. In addition, I keep a battery maintainer on each battery.

[VinceD]

I do exactly what gitractorman does only I use B&S gas treatment. It does exactly the same thing as Stabil. I have never had a problem with the engine starting in the spring.

Not only does the gas treatment keep the gas from going bad, it also helps to clean the fuel system. Best of both worlds.

[Eugene]

I use Stabil in all of my machinery. The only difference. If I can I run the machines out of fuel in the gas tank and carburator. I have had a gasoline thieft problem. I don't keep full gas tanks.

Those machines under lock and key. I run the carburators out of fuel. Once every 4 to 6 weeks - during warmer days - I start and run each machine. I keep a log for starting each machine.

Eugene

[BigBill]

I think keeping a log book on the machines is another very important thing too. With so many tractors/cars/trucks its hard to keep track of the maintanence on everything too.

[moparado]

Eugene wrote:

If I can I run the machines out of fuel in the gas tank and carburator.

I wholeheartedly agree. My ATV sat for months without starting the engine. The gas left in the carb evaporated gumming it up to the point i had to rebuild and clean it out with pipe cleaners, brake cleaner solvent and my air compressor.
I now close the fuel tank valve and let the engine run until it stops.

Also, many of these machines don't come with factory installed fuel filters like my snow blower, tiller, chainsaw, etc. A spec of dirt in the gas can easily lodge itself in a critical area of the carb causing problems. I installed fuel filters and fuel tank shut-off valves on all my machines which didn't come with em and replace the filters yearly.

Speaking of fuel stabilizers, i read on a can of Seafoam that among its other befefits, its also a fuel stabilizer! H'mm is there anyting this stuff can't do? I'm gonna give it a try this winter as a fuel stabilizer instead of that other stuff.

By the way the other big historic problem i 'had' with Winter storage were dead batteries in the Spring. A float charger instantly ended that problem. I have em installed on my Cadet, Farmall, ATV and pickup. They all fire right up in the Spring as if they had a fresh new battery just installed.

Ken

[gitractorman]

I know that it was the old recommended thing to do, running equipment out of gas before storage, but now it is highly recommended NOT to do that. The problem is as you mentioned about your 4-wheeler, you never actually completely empty the fuel system, and what little gas remains ends up going bad and evaproating. When gas goes bad, it becomes extremely corrosive, especially to the plastic and rubber parts in fuel systems, and will totally destroy them. It is probably the #1 repair item that we see in Dad's shop, fuel systems gummed up and melted down because of stale fuel in the carb.

If you look in any new equipment owners manual, they ALL say to add fuel stabilizer to the fuel system before long term storage. This way the fuel system is full and there is no air in the system to promote fuel degredation and parts degredation.

If you look on Lawn Boy, 2-cycle oil mix, it already contains fuel stabilizer. I love that stuff, and run it in all of my push mowers, trimmers, chain saws, etc. Especially my chain saw, which I only use once or twice a year. It has never failed, even in the dead of winter after sitting in a barn at below zero, give it a couple of pulls and fires right up.

Bill

[BigBill]

Whats a float charger?

We had battery tenders on our motorcycles but now with so many batteries to trickle charge I'm in trouble now. Does anyone make a multiple battery trickle charger? I wonder how hard using diodes on the charge wires so each battery is uneffected by the others. I have 5 battery's to trickle charge now.

My only other choice is to buy as many battery tenders as i need and put them on a timer.

BTW; On my next trip out I'll pick up a gallon of seafoam if i can find it because the cans don't last too long.

[moparado]

BigBill,
A float charger will output just enough amperage to keep a 'fully charged' battery from self-discharging over long periods of non-use. By definition, it cannot provide enough current to charge a discharged battery. Because of this, it cannot overcharge a battery over a long period of time like a trickle charger might. I picked up a few of these things at Harbor Freight Tools for around 5 bucks each. They're basically a wall wart with battery clips. I use these on my Farmall and Cadet. They work GREAT!! Just make sure the battery is fully charged before using them.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=42292

For my ATV and pickup, i use a more expensive combination float/trickle charger. Basically, it periodically samples the open circuit battery voltage to determine its condition and accordingly either trickle charges a discharged battery or goes into float mode for a fully charged battery. These can also be found at Harbot Freight or any automotive store and typically have mounting brackets to permanently bolt on the vehicle.
I think it what you're calling a battery tender might be the same thing, i don't know for sure.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=93258

As far as charging multiple batteries in parallel... diodes or no diodes might be asking for trouble. The most discharged or degraded battery will hog most of the current starving the others. And if you use a high amperage charger, there's the possibility of overcharging and permanently ruining a good battery.
Adding diodes will only prevent a fully charged battery from discharging into another battery. Further and more important, the voltage drop across a forward biased silicon diode is around .7 of a volt. Lets say the charger has an output voltage of of 13 volts, the battery will only see 12.3 volts at its terminals due to the voltage drop across the diode...not enough voltage to charge the battery or even keep a fully charged battery charged.

Yep, i just bought a couple more cans of Seafoam also. Gonna see if its as good a gas stabilizer as Stabil. I plan to use it in all my vehicles, machines and the backup generators. We'll see next Spring!

[moparado]

gitractorman,
I'll keep that in mind.
One thing i forgot to mention is when i know the ATV won't be used for a while, i drain the float bowl after the engine runs out of gas.

The carb gumming problem i had with my ATV happened before i start running the engine out of gas. I started this procedure after i rebuilt and cleaned the carb so i geuss the long term verdict isn't in yet. Strangely enough, the problem with the ATV isn't Winter storage as this thing gets a workout during the Winter plowing snow. Its periods of non-use during the other seasons.
Might be a fuel injected ATV would be more forgiving to dirty gas and gumming problems!
I could be wrong but when i was at the Case dealer buying parts the other week, i seem to recall some of the new hi-end Cub Cadets with Kawasaki engines (i think) were fuel injected!

[Charles (49) Mo]

Just my personal opinion from someone who has been doing this on a Cub since it was new in 1949. Run the carb dry. I was 9 at the time it was purchased and I'm 66 now. The origional carb wore out years ago and was replaced many years ago. Never had any carb problems with the Cub useing the old style gas or the new stuff they now call gasoline. It is started and worked a little during the winter to the point that its at least a bit warm and to charge the battery. Its not bad to drive it thru snow covered woods as the trees break the wind. It gives you the time to see the deer tracks in the snow.

[moparado]

The potential issue as i see it by NOT running the carb dry is that gas remains in the carb and will eventually evaporate leaving a gummy residue. I don't know exactly how fuel stabilizers work but i don't believe they prevent small amounts of gas left in the carb from evaporating.

As i mentioned earlier i started running the carb dry about a year ago and so far it seems to be working albeit it took a few years for the carb to gum up in the first place.
Also i never used a gas stabilizer in the ATV so maybe gitractorman's method works also.

I might add here also, that i never used a stabilizer in my '55 Farmall, don't turn off the gas tank valve, don't run the engine dry and it fires right up after long periods of non-use including the Winter months. Same for my 1872 Cadet. Could be that fancy hi-performance carb on my ATV is less forgiving to gumming problems than those old '55 Farmall and '70 something Cadet carbs. Who knows!

It'll be a couple more years before i know conclusively if 'running the carb dry' on my ATV works.

['Country' Elliott]

You guys might be surprised to learn that SEAFOAM also acts as a gasoline stabilizer (for up to 2 years)!!! I stopped using Sta-Bil when I started using Seafoam. The REAL convincer was in the gas tank of my 1926 Economy Hit and Miss engine. With Seafoam, the gas remained FRESH...even with the engine sitting for long periods of time between runs. ONE GALLON of gas lasts you a LONG TIME with a Hit & Miss engine !