Whats going on with this deck?

[moparado]

There's a severe interference with an unused pivot arm and the mower deck linkage on the right side of the tractor when the deck is raised causing binding and an uneven deck height.
I've lived with problem for eight years now since i've owned the tractor and deck. The tractor came this way and fortunately i have the deck kit installation manual and all seems to be installed correctly for this model tractor.

First the tractor and the deck. The tractor is an 1872 model and the deck is a CubCadet 50" 50GT, model 359 according to the owners manual.





The general area pointed out by the red arrow:





The interference between that 'mysterious' unused pivot arm and the deck bracket. Wear marks from these two parts colliding can clearly be seen here - raised position:





When the deck is lowered, no problem:



I'm at a point where i'm thinking on modifying that deck linkage to correct this problem.
Anyone have any ideas as to whats going on?
Whats the unused pivot arm used for? Is it a factory option for certain decks or other equipment?
This thing has got me puzzled?
Ken

[Paul B]

It almost looks like part of the hydraulic lift system. I would start by taking the tunnel cover off (the cover that is bolted to each frame rail, just in front of the seat) so you can see down in there to see if there is something broken or sheared that allows that to be a problem. Is there one on the left side also? They are normally pinned to the rock shaft with spirol pins (coiled spring pins) and a pin may be sheared (not uncommon) , and it is out of place. Can you move/turn it by hand (engine NOT running)? Take the cover off and post another picture or two if you still don't see the cause of the problem.

[wdeturck]

I just looked at the parts breakdown and there are 2 roll pins from that part hanging down through the rock shaft and one is broken and it is letting that part twist causing the interference.

[moparado]

Thanks guys, I think you all are on to something, namely a sheared roll pin. For the last couple of years i've been meaning look under that tractor when i've got the deck off...i keep forgetting.

Paul B,
There is no matching 'unused arm' on the other side of the tractor...only on the right side. I can't physically move it but it does move when the deck arm moves. In fact i remember tapping it with a hammer a few years ago and it wouldn't budge.
When the deck is lowered that unused arm is pretty much vertical. When the deck is raised, the arm is maybe just shy of 30 deg from vertical. You can see this somewhat from the pictures.
When i get time, i'll inspect that whole rock shaft area closer.

wdeturck,
thats good to know. Could be the roll pin sheared and is still jammed or rusted solid which might explain why i can't move it by hand.

Any ideas what kind of attachment or accessory that thing was meant for. Two hydraulically actuated arms in that close proximity don't make too much sense to me.
Ken

[wdeturck]

Not being to familiar with those tractors that look like the arm that would have the bar on it that runs to the rear 3 point hitch and I'm to lazy to go back and look at the parts break down http://www.cngcoinc.com/parts-browse.asp
and look what hooks on it.

[Paul B]

I agree, and looking at the parts breakdown for a 982, which I believe is basically the same, that arm appears to be welded to the rock shaft, and the two deck lift arms may be at fault or in the wrong position. I'm not sure about this, and the drawings in the parts manual do not always give a "true picture". I don't believe that rock shaft is a one piece shaft, and again I may be wrong since I am not that familar with the 82 series tractors. Time for a look with the cover off.

[wdeturck]

just want to see if this works. I was trying to post an image location of the Implement lift of the 1872 but it just gives the long URL and makes the screen wide. It will post a working link from a URL but that makes the screen wide also. Any cures for that?

[klejeune]

Wm, try listing it like this:

Code: Select all

[url=http://ihregistry.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=wdeturck-MODERATOR]Geezer's IHRegistry Profile[/url]

Would produce this:

Geezer's IHRegistry Profile

Just change the web address and whatever you want to show on the page.

Code: Select all

[url=http://wssemw.arinet.com/Scripts/ImgServ.exe/convert?ilFN=D%3A%5CEMPARTweb_52%5CCatalog%20Data%5CEMP_IMG%5CCUT%5CImages%5C003090%5C0062.TIF&ilSC=31&ilIV=0&ilBR=0&ilIF=G&ilRE=8]Implement lift image[/url]

Would show this:

Implement lift image

Keith

[klejeune]

BTW, I didn't know Chevy made wheel weights.

[wdeturck]

Thanks Keith. you can go in and bring the size back to normal. I'll remember ] as I use a , on the other site.

[moparado]

Paul, it looks like you're right about those two arms being welded to the sleeve which fits over the rock shaft. That would explain why the unused arm wouldn't budge when i tapped it with a hammer. And also why both those arms move in tandem.

Thanks wdeturck for that great parts link! It'll come in handy!
From that website under CubCadet: Super Garden Tractor: 1872: implement lift: here's the parts diagram. It doesn't look a 100% to what i've got but its close:



Looking at the implement list, some possibilities for that unused arm could be for a : hydraulic plow blade (which i've got but not installed), snow thrower, rear PTO. Hard to tell from the parts diagrams alone though!

Now the remaining issue is that everything correctly looks in place, the deck linkage, the deck support brackets and the unused arm is at this point is apparently where its supposed to be... then why the interference?
Bad deck bracket design?
Is that unused arm a later S/N add-on not supported by this particular 'earlier' deck installation kit?
Is this not all that uncommon with other Cub Cadet models and implements?
Still puzzled, looks like i might have to revamp that deck support bracket after all.
Ken

[moparado]

Followup FWIW
Finally popped the lid off my Cadet to have a look see. PaulB and wdeturck your initial hunches about a roll pin were right.
I totally misinterpreted that implement parts diagram. Part #2 in that diagram is the pivot arm in question and its apparently fastened by roll pins to the sleeve part #1 which is activated by the hydraulic ram. The two mower deck lift arms are welded to the sleeve. The 'troublesome unused' pivot arm is welded to a shaft which is held inside the sleeve.
Wdeturck, i think you're right on about that lone right side lift arm being used for a 3-point hitch as i did a little research on 3-point hitches for this tractor.
Its really starting to look like the only way around the problem is to modify the deck supports.
Ken

Here's an overview of whats under the cover:



The roll pins can and sleeve can clearly be seen here:

[klejeune]

Looks like those roll pins have been replaced at some point. Shouldn't they be spirol pins instead? My guess is they replaced the pins and didn't have the internal rod turned to the correct position before driving in the new pins.

Drive out the pins and move the bracket to a higher position and re-install the pins.

[moparado]

klejeune,
thanks for the comments... i need any ideas before i perform major surgery on that deck support!

When i first inspected that whole rock shaft assembly that was my initial thought also. But i finally came to the conclusion that shaft/lift arm (part #2) is in the correct position.
That lift arm (part #2) has a dual purpose. It acts as an implement lift most likely for a 3 point hitch. Second, if you look at it closely in the parts diagram, it has an odd shape for just a lift arm. Thats because together with parts #12 and #13 its part of the operator adjustable deck lift-stop cam assembly. Further, if i remove the roll pins and rotate part #2 180 deg. relative to part #1 and reinstall it, it would be useless as a hitch lift.

The only thing i can deduce at this point barring any revelations from you all, is that this deck installation kit is just a bad design for this tractor. As i mentioned earlier, the deck installation manual came with this tractor and its the correct kit and far as i can tell its installed correctly for this model tractor. No surprise as this deck installation kit supports numerous models of Cadet tractors according to the manual.

OR...
something is bent outa kilter somewhere! But if it is, its sure not obvious and this problem existed the day i got this tractor. If this turns out to be the problem, why i'll.... just blame it on the previous owner!
I'll admit this tractor and deck is no stranger to running into the occasional (where did that come from?) fence post even though i keep telling it not to.

Ken

[Paul B]

I agree with Keith, drive the roll pins out (and replace them with spirol pins) and rotate 180 degrees. If the arm in question is the part the rear hitch lift bar connects to, it is suppose to be up inside the frame, not down below it.