Getting Even

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outdoors4evr
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Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Getting Even

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:00 am

My 184 clearly did not appreciate me posting pictures of while in work clothes (dirty).
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=105442

After she saw those pics online she chewed up her clutch, went on strike, and refused to move. We were mowing at the time and had about 3/4 the yard finished. Yesterday I removed the mower deck, rockshaft, driveshaft, PTO drive, Pressure Plate and clutch. The clutch came out in 2 pieces. The hub separated from the disc. The hub is attached to the clutch plate with rivets.
Image

Anyone have an improvement to this design? The last time I replaced the clutch due to a hub/disc separation was Wednesday Aug 14, 2012.
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=72851&p=585978&hilit=clutch#p586540
This has been 7 years since last done and should equate roughly 700 hours. The clutch material (and the splines) show very little wear.

Next set of pictures will certainly be all cleaned up and ready to go out.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

mozer71
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Re: Getting Even

Postby mozer71 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:02 pm

I would be interested in what you came up with. I'm surprised it wasn't making a racket while some of those rivets were failing but I guess it wasn't expected to be in the clutch disc hub. Maybe there are better rivets for repair.

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
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Posts: 2705
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: Getting Even

Postby outdoors4evr » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:11 am

It was rattling before it went.
I'm guessing the root cause will be an alignment issue. The driveshaft will probably never run in a perfect circle due to the way the U-Joint is fastened. There are two set screws 90 degrees apart. These push the driveshaft out of center. I'm going to try to shim the driveshaft to get it to ride more centered.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

mozer71
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Re: Getting Even

Postby mozer71 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:21 pm

Now I understand the title :) Shimming the side opposite the screws, at half the total play, is probably better.

BigBill
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Re: Getting Even

Postby BigBill » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:24 pm

Replace the rivets with bolts. Also I use a epoxy from silicone valley. Glue it and screw it. I tested this epoxy in the weather on my 70 cub cadet to glue the new disc brake pads on. It’s a decade so far the pads are still on it. Bolts in shear will last longer than hollow rivets in shear.

Go to, http://www.boltdepot.com

If there’s no room for locking nuts use skinny jam nuts with forever loctite too.

https://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_button_head.aspx

https://www.boltdepot.com/Prevailing_to ... _nuts.aspx
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
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Posts: 2705
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: Getting Even

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:35 am

The new clutch went in well, but is VERY tight. Can't really get it to release completely. The tractor would come to a stop if traveling up hill, but would not come to a stop on the flat without applying the brakes. Tore it all back apart. The new clutch is thicker than the original. It has these extra raised portions on the clutch face that make the clutch material thicker.
I can't seem to get any more leverage to "lift" the pressure plate off the clutch plate. The pressure plate has very minimal wear on the fingers. (Just starting to create a wear indent where the throwout bearing contacts) I'll either have to break it in (burn the excess material off) with use or replace the clutch again with an old stock clutch with less material on the face.

If I use an old stock clutch, I'll certainly have to replace the rivets with bolts as BigBill suggested.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2705
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: Getting Even

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:44 am

Here's some pictures... (please parden the background, currently insulating the new garage and will soon be drywall ready)
Here are the old and new clutch plates side by side
OldAndNewClutch.JPG


This is the old clutch sitting on the pressure plate
OldClutchPlate.JPG


This is the new clutch sitting on the pressure plate
NewClutchPlate.JPG
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

ford141
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:19 am
Zip Code: 16201
Tractors Owned: International 184

Re: Getting Even

Postby ford141 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:29 pm

Where did you get the new clutch disk from? Is it a consequence of cheap aftermarket parts? Interested because I may be in the market for a new clutch for my 184 soon.

outdoors4evr
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
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Re: Getting Even

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:43 pm

I have another clutch identical to the old one (on the left) but was hoping the newly designed one was better built. It looks like the rivets are the same. The new clutch (on the right) was from Steiner this time. Previous one was a HamiltonBobsCubs. One before that was from a CNH dealer. The price difference is quite negligible between Steiner and HamiltonBobsCubs. The dealer price is about $50 more. All three look identical except for the thicker friction material on the Steiner (the one on the right).

I really wish that my clutch pedal had a longer throw arm at the pivot point that actuates the clutch pedal. It always seems difficult to get that 1/2" to 1" of pedal movement before clutch engagement and still get the throwout clear of the fingers when the clutch is out. The fork is able to move the throwout clear, but there just isn't enough motion on the pull rod.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

ford141
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:19 am
Zip Code: 16201
Tractors Owned: International 184

Re: Getting Even

Postby ford141 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:50 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:I have another clutch identical to the old one (on the left) but was hoping the newly designed one was better built. It looks like the rivets are the same. The new clutch (on the right) was from Steiner this time. Previous one was a HamiltonBobsCubs. One before that was from a CNH dealer. The price difference is quite negligible between Steiner and HamiltonBobsCubs. The dealer price is about $50 more. All three look identical except for the thicker friction material on the Steiner (the one on the right).

I really wish that my clutch pedal had a longer throw arm at the pivot point that actuates the clutch pedal. It always seems difficult to get that 1/2" to 1" of pedal movement before clutch engagement and still get the throwout clear of the fingers when the clutch is out. The fork is able to move the throwout clear, but there just isn't enough motion on the pull rod.


Seems like they compromised clutch throw in favor of a lighter clutch feel. At least that's my humble opinion.

mozer71
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Re: Getting Even

Postby mozer71 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:55 pm

Man. You went through this again :( Pressure plates often have screws to set the fingers at different height. So if they extended further, the throwout bearing would open the space more....?
I read your post and am thinkin about it fwiw..

outdoors4evr
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Posts: 2705
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
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Re: Getting Even

Postby outdoors4evr » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:31 am

No pressure plate adjustments on the numbered series. I have already drilled another hole in the shift fork closer to the pivot point to give a little more throw. This helps with the shift fork throw and the wear slop in the original hole.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

mozer71
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Re: Getting Even

Postby mozer71 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:45 pm

Good to know it is working :)

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2705
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: Getting Even

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:12 am

Still not enough clearance. Driveshaft won't stop with clutch in. Trying to "break it in" with use.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

mozer71
501 Club
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Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:33 pm
Zip Code: 22650

Re: Getting Even

Postby mozer71 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:15 pm

I understand there is a point to where the clutch fingers shouldn't be pressed further. Have you got to that point?


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