Weird electrical problem

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Saucymynx
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Weird electrical problem

Postby Saucymynx » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:10 am

I am convinced that my ‘79 184 has electrical gremlins. As I posted a while back, she wont start when the key is in the “start” position, only when i release it to the “run” position. I haven’t yet tried to figure that out. Now for something new: My headlamps and tail lamps had been working just fine but suddenly quit. The fuse looked ok but i replaced it just to see. I had an agc 15, not the agc 10 it called for, but tried that. The lights worked for a bit but they flickered wildly and then went out. Fuse was still good. Any thoughts on this? Do I need to call a priest for an exorcism?

Thanks in advance for your help!

tst
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby tst » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:22 am

starting when only in the run position is probably a bad resistor, not that familiar with the # series, it may have a ballast resistor that is bad or the resistor is built into the key switch
lights, bad connections/grounds I would look at 1st

outdoors4evr
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:37 am

The lights issue is likely the fuse holder rather than the fuse. The fuse holder is not water tight and the contacts do rust. The fuse holder contacts can be cleaned with a dremel and a small wire brush and a little electrical contact cleaner.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/CRC-5103-Quick-Dry-Electronic-Cleaner-11-Wt-Oz/16817418
Image
Once you get the fuse holder cleaned, put some dielectric grease on each end of the fuse and around the lip of the fuse holder cap to hopefully attempt to keep the water out.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/CRC-Industries-Inc-05109-Dielectric-Grease-5Oz-Tube/34051743
Image

Another alternative is to replace the fuse holder. The fuse holders are not expensive nor are they unique.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fuse-Holder-BUSS-FUSEHOLDER/457084762
Image
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

Saucymynx
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Saucymynx » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:19 pm

Great suggestions – thanks. I will give those a try

Saucymynx
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Saucymynx » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:58 pm

The plot thickens. I went out to take a look at the fuse holder and in fact the new fuse I put in last night has blown. And it was a 15 amp fuse. Now what? I had the tractor rewired last spring. Could be an alternator problem? I do notice that the coil gets hot When it is running. Before I had it re-wired the coil actually burned up. This is just crazy. I am half tempted just to replace the whole electrical system. But I would rather not… :help: When it is running. Before I had it re-wired the coil actually burned up. This is just crazy. I am half tempted just to replace the whole electrical system. But I would rather not… :help: :help: :help:

outdoors4evr
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby outdoors4evr » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:16 am

Multiple issues are haunting your tractor during this Halloween season.
There is a short in the lighting circuit. Inspect the wiring carefully at each light and at the light switch (and the fuse) looking for a short.
Disconnect the battery and unplug the lights. Using an Ohm Meter, there should be infinite ohms (no connection) between the fuse and the tractor ground. Plug in one light and you should see the ohm meter respond with something like 10-50 ohms (roughly). Unplug that light and move on to the next.
Somewhere in the system, there is a short to ground or a wire that is rubbed thin and shorting to ground.

Regarding the coil, this should not be getting too hot to hold. If it is, then a 6v coil is probably installed without a resistor or the coil is failing. Replace the coil with a 12v coil with an internal resistor. (something like this, but you can purchase elsewhere)
https://hamiltonbobs.com/cart/product/precision-spark-premium-12v-ignition-coil-w-internal-resistor-p5645/engine-c67/ih-m13/154-cub-lo-boy-mm4
https://www.steinertractor.com/ABC509-12-Volt-Distributor-Coil-internally-resisted-
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

Saucymynx
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Saucymynx » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:48 pm

Thanks Outdoors4ever. I will start the process of tracing the wires. As for the coil, is there a way to tell a 6 v from a 12 v? The only markings I can see are a number -0178. There is no ballast or resistor on the coil but there is one on the back of the alternator. I would post a picture but the 74 kB file seems to be too big :-(
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Eugene
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Eugene » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:10 pm

Saucymynx wrote:She won't start when the key is in the “start” position, only when i release it to the “run” position.
If you don't have the wiring diagram or service manual for your tractor with the alternator, obtain one.

Typical vehicle, the ignition switch start position, power is supplied to the ignition circuit as well as the starter circuit. Turn the ignition switch to the run position and the starter circuit drops out.

From description something is failing in the ignition circuit when the key is in the start position. This is where the wiring diagram will help diagnose the potential problem areas/appliances.
I have an excuse. CRS.

BigBill
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby BigBill » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:22 pm

On my first int154 we took out the ohm meter and found out it had a ground cable problem.
My new rewire harness is messed up. It’s driving me livid. I need to wire one thing at a time.

My third int154 has battery acid inside the battery cables. Haven’t touched it yet.

There are no short cuts to doing restorations, restorations isn’t new paint as some think.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

outdoors4evr
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby outdoors4evr » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:51 am

I don't know how to tell the difference between a 12v and a 6v coil except to change something and see if the condition improves.
Option1: Add a ballast resistor to see if the issue goes away (might still be a bad coil)
https://www.steinertractor.com/ABC366?gclid=CjwKCAjwusrtBRBmEiwAGBPgE0zG9-0P8pVh0IkaTMvA7nsVL36bE7T1cMbdevTSFJ5gxMwlV3D-3BoCKfoQAvD_BwE
Option2: Replace the coil
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

Saucymynx
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Saucymynx » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:45 am

I ordered a new coil and electronic ignition, as well as new light switch and ignition switch. And fuse holder. I am doing the “new parts shuffle”!

Eugene
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Eugene » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:49 am

Saucymynx wrote:I had the tractor rewired last spring.
Who did the rewiring and what was done? Could be the electrical problems be the result of the rewiring?
Saucymynx wrote:I ordered a new coil and electronic ignition, as well as new light switch and ignition switch. And fuse holder. I am doing the “new parts shuffle”!
Diagnose the problem(s) before throwing parts at the tractor. Solve one problem at a time, then go on to the next issue.

Do not install the electronic ignition until you have the problem(s) solved and fixed.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Larry B
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Larry B » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:10 pm

A 12 volt coil will measure approx 3 ohms across the 2 screw terminals. A 6 volt coil will measure approx 1.5 ohms.

BigBill
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby BigBill » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:37 pm

I’m going to strip all the wires in my first 154 and rewire each system one at a time,

Shrink boot and solder wires.
Systems
1, ignition key, ballast resistor, coil,
2. Starting system key
3. Charging system
4. Lights

Old wires need to be removed.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

Larry B
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Re: Weird electrical problem

Postby Larry B » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:58 pm

Probably a wise move. When i replace wires on equipment and trailers i use 3:1 adhesive lined heat shrink. I find the 2:1 non adhesive heat shrink doesn't always seal air tight. I used to solder but last ten years or so i have better luck with good crimp connectors and a ratchet crimper.


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