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Would this be the cause of my problem?
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
- Zip Code: 45380
- Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
12V with Petronix
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
Front/Rear Weights - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles, Ohio
Would this be the cause of my problem?
Prior to plowing and while plowing everythign was working great, then the hydraulics just quit. Here is how it is hooked up. Previous owner or Previous x2 or x3 lengthened the lift arm.
Wondering since the longer arm is going to cause more torque on the pivot that the hydraulics have to turn and with the plow being down deep in the soil would that be possibly why it suddenly quit working?
Also talked with Dennis at Steiner and he was telling me if you fill the hydraulic fluid to full there is now place for it to expand when it warms up and this can cause issues also.
Just trying to figure out what happened after it was working so well.
Wondering since the longer arm is going to cause more torque on the pivot that the hydraulics have to turn and with the plow being down deep in the soil would that be possibly why it suddenly quit working?
Also talked with Dennis at Steiner and he was telling me if you fill the hydraulic fluid to full there is now place for it to expand when it warms up and this can cause issues also.
Just trying to figure out what happened after it was working so well.
Shawn Agne
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 6168
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
- Zip Code: 00000
- Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Wa.
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Hi,
When a Touch Control has too much weight for it to lift, it just makes a sound like it is working hard. Don't keep it doing that for long, move the lever back to where it isn't labored.
The drive gear could have come off the pump. Did you use the washer that you bend over one side of the shaft nut when you put the pump in, I remember you worked on the pump.
Fill the system to the filler plug hole, with the arms in the rear, or down position. The fluid rises in the system, as you move the arms to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid.
When a Touch Control has too much weight for it to lift, it just makes a sound like it is working hard. Don't keep it doing that for long, move the lever back to where it isn't labored.
The drive gear could have come off the pump. Did you use the washer that you bend over one side of the shaft nut when you put the pump in, I remember you worked on the pump.
Fill the system to the filler plug hole, with the arms in the rear, or down position. The fluid rises in the system, as you move the arms to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid.
Last edited by Glen on Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
- Zip Code: 45380
- Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
12V with Petronix
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
Front/Rear Weights - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles, Ohio
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Nope didn't loose the gear. Added more fluid it worked. Guessing it blew the oil seal that Shane did as there is more fluid in oil pan. Somthing caused the extra pressure.
Shawn Agne
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 4908
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Tractors Owned: .
1970 International 140
1972 International 140
1949 John Deere A
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Do you still have the extra hydraulic stuff you added for your snow plow hooked to the hydraulic system?
You are building pressure somehow and it has to go somewhere.
You said your touch control block is leaking too, where is it leaking from?
You were passing fluid past your oring, you had a few thousandths taken off your pump shaft. I welded that up and turned it back to .500”. Bored your block and put in a seal. Something is causing to much pressure.
You are building pressure somehow and it has to go somewhere.
You said your touch control block is leaking too, where is it leaking from?
You were passing fluid past your oring, you had a few thousandths taken off your pump shaft. I welded that up and turned it back to .500”. Bored your block and put in a seal. Something is causing to much pressure.
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
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- Team Cub
- Posts: 24279
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- Tractors Owned: At This Time
40 Farmall Cubs (Round Hood)
2 Farmall Cub (Square Hood)
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- Location: OH, New Haven (Hamilton County)
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Bring it to the Bash the end of May and make it a project.
There are two ways to get enough Cubs. One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
- Zip Code: 45380
- Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
12V with Petronix
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
Front/Rear Weights - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles, Ohio
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
The bypass block is still on the tractor as is the valve which is hooked to the bypass but the valve isn't running anything. I have the pressure relieve on the valve turned down low enough it shouldn't be causing any issues just works the blade cylinder when it's attached.
The leak is off the back and between that and the dash. It is a slow leak and I don't always see it.
Checked the oil level and appears the hydraulic fluid all got dumped to the oil pan.
The leak is off the back and between that and the dash. It is a slow leak and I don't always see it.
Checked the oil level and appears the hydraulic fluid all got dumped to the oil pan.
Shawn Agne
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 4908
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Tractors Owned: .
1970 International 140
1972 International 140
1949 John Deere A
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
I’m curious as to what’s making so much pressure that an oring nor a seal is holding up. I hate it leaked on you and your back at square one.
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2929
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Location: MO, Potosi
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
I don't know Dennis but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions. This one would make me not want to listen to much else Dennis has to say. I think a group of IH design engineers even in the 1940's would have thought of, and taken into consideration, the possibility that the hydraulic fluid might warm up. Unless this is a vague incomplete reference to what Glen has already posted?ShawnAgne wrote:......
Also talked with Dennis at Steiner and he was telling me if you fill the hydraulic fluid to full there is now place for it to expand when it warms up and this can cause issues also. ..........
Glen wrote:.....Fill the system to the filler plug hole, with the arms in the rear, or down position. The fluid rises in the system, as you move the arms to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 2015
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 9:25 am
- Zip Code: 63628
- Tractors Owned: '40 H
'44 B
'47 Cub
'49 C
54A Blade
42 Woods Mower
Henderson Loader
Cultivators
No. 8 Little Genius 2-12 Plow
IH Running Gear - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Bonne Terre, Mo
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Scrivet wrote:I don't know Dennis but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions. This one would make me not want to listen to much else Dennis has to say. I think a group of IH design engineers even in the 1940's would have thought of, and taken into consideration, the possibility that the hydraulic fluid might warm up. Unless this is a vague incomplete reference to what Glen has already posted?ShawnAgne wrote:......
Also talked with Dennis at Steiner and he was telling me if you fill the hydraulic fluid to full there is now place for it to expand when it warms up and this can cause issues also. ..........Glen wrote:.....Fill the system to the filler plug hole, with the arms in the rear, or down position. The fluid rises in the system, as you move the arms to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid.
Per the manual:
Sufficient air space is allowed above the fluid level to compensate for the pressure changes occurring during the operation of the system.
I'm sure that is what Dennis meant - I don't believe he was telling you not to fill it to the proper level, but not to overfill it. I don't think if you remove the plug to fill it, that it will overfill since the fluid will just run out of the plug, but.......
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
- Zip Code: 45380
- Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
12V with Petronix
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
Front/Rear Weights - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles, Ohio
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Yes that is what he was saying in that you want to leave air space.
Was doing some calculations here at work so guessing I'm dimensioms. Assuming plow weighs 125, the lifting arm is 24" the arm that attaches yo the rod of the rockstar is 8" and the main piston that operates the rocjshaft is 1" diameter, lifting the plow is putting an additional 119 psi on the system. This not counting the wet heavy dirt on it and trying to pull it up through the ground.
Found a post from 2009 where a guy was lifting a 300lb test weight and it failed on 75th lift due to heat.
I was raising and lowering it at the end beginning of each pass so wondering if it was heat which caused expansion and then the extra 119psi of plow plus from the wet dirt?
Was doing some calculations here at work so guessing I'm dimensioms. Assuming plow weighs 125, the lifting arm is 24" the arm that attaches yo the rod of the rockstar is 8" and the main piston that operates the rocjshaft is 1" diameter, lifting the plow is putting an additional 119 psi on the system. This not counting the wet heavy dirt on it and trying to pull it up through the ground.
Found a post from 2009 where a guy was lifting a 300lb test weight and it failed on 75th lift due to heat.
I was raising and lowering it at the end beginning of each pass so wondering if it was heat which caused expansion and then the extra 119psi of plow plus from the wet dirt?
Shawn Agne
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- 10+ Years
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- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
- Zip Code: 32736
- Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub
So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story. - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
ShawnAgne wrote:Found a post from 2009 where a guy was lifting a 300lb test weight and it failed on 75th lift due to heat.
From that post, what constitutes “failed”? Blew past the seal like yours or something else? Can you link to that thread?
ShawnAgne wrote:I was raising and lowering it at the end beginning of each pass so wondering if it was heat which caused expansion and then the extra 119psi of plow plus from the wet dirt?
I have not run a plow before, so: do you have it set up as intended, but the only difference is that it is hooked to that extension instead of the original length lift arm? If so, you have reduced the leverage of the hydraulic system to 33% of what it was designed to be, but you’re lifting the plow 3x as far.
I think you need to add back in a mounting point on the lift rod back near the original location.
In short, yes, I think you are on the right track.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
- Zip Code: 45380
- Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
12V with Petronix
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
Front/Rear Weights - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles, Ohio
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Yes the plow is hooked up as originally intended aside from the extension doing the lifting.
The failure sighted in the 2009 thread was it just quit lifting but when he let everything cool off it lifted it again the next day.
Going to remove the extension but will take some grinding, what is the official name of that part as may just look for replacement.
The failure sighted in the 2009 thread was it just quit lifting but when he let everything cool off it lifted it again the next day.
Going to remove the extension but will take some grinding, what is the official name of that part as may just look for replacement.
Shawn Agne
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- Team Cub Mentor
- Posts: 17508
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
- Zip Code: 21550
- Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Rear rockshaft. Why not just drill another hole at the correct location?
-
- 5+ Years
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
- Zip Code: 45380
- Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
12V with Petronix
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
Front/Rear Weights - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Versailles, Ohio
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
The extra length scratched up the decal on my newly restored plow. Thing has to look nice as it holds the concrete down in my barn. Plus more importantly it interferes with the cargo rack my sprayer goes in.
Shawn Agne
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 6168
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
- Zip Code: 00000
- Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Wa.
Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?
Hi,
Below is the Cub 193 Plow owner's manual, if you need it. There is a pic of the rear rockshaft on page 10, showing the original length of the shaft.
http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html
Below is the Cub 193 Plow owner's manual, if you need it. There is a pic of the rear rockshaft on page 10, showing the original length of the shaft.
http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html
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