PTO generator?

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973
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Saucymynx
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PTO generator?

Postby Saucymynx » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:00 pm

Hello from the north! Since my last post I have relocated from balmy Tennessee to the wilds of Michigan's Upper Peninsula (I know - crazy!). As I prepare for 7 months of winter,I need back up power and am leaning towards a pto generator. With 4 tractors around the place I don't need another engine around. I would like to use my 140 as the power source for a 10 kw trailer mounted unit, since, with it being gas I wont have to worry as much if i run it out of fuel (compared to Diesel). Have any of you run a pto generator off a 100-140 series Farmall?

Thanks

Renee

inairam
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Re: PTO generator?

Postby inairam » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:38 pm

The 140 is about 20 hp which is about 15 kw. So you should be be able to run the 10 kw generator. I have thought about this a great doea with cubs and the math just does not work with used generator for sale.

Just make sure you have blocks for the the wheels.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Eugene » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:34 pm

It's do able. The only problem after getting the pulley ratios figure out, is getting the tractor to run at an exact, steady RPM.

Have three generator sets and a 10 KW head on shelf. I had the 10KW head powered with a 25 HP Kohler. Once I had the ratios figured out and everything assembled, - I could micro adjust the engine's RPMs to get exactly 120/240 volts.

Gasoline consumption is a consideration. Tractor consumption per hour versus a generator set. And then, what is the longest time frame you can expect to be without electricity? Extimated longest length of time in hours the generator set will have to run, times gasoline price per gallon.

A generator set may more sense. We use the generator sets for farm construction projects. They get frequent use beside any power outages.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:38 pm

I agree with Eugene. With today’s electronics you need a clean, consistent source of power. And almost everything today has a circuit board in it somewhere. Go with a dedicated, self-powered generator.
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Saucymynx
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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Saucymynx » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:17 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I thought I had made up my mind but you give me some good points to consider. As far as clean power, isn’t that a function of the generator itself and not its power source? And since the 140 is governed, once I set the throttle at the right voltage, wouldn’t it hold that RPM? As far as pulley ratios, my tractor has a 540 PTO so that shouldn’t be a problem. Please keep pushing back on my notions!

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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:41 am

Actual voltage will vary with load. It's critical to get the frequency right, RPM's will control that, then it's hard to say what your voltage will be. Even with dedicated (non inverter) stand alone generators, it's a crap shoot. That's what makes stand alone, inverter generators far superior and far more desirable. While inverter generators are considerably more expensive, I'd spend the money and go that way. They deliver clean, 60 cycle power with the engine RPM maintaining the voltage at 120/240. They are also far more fuel efficient and a whole lot quieter.

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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Eugene » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:51 am

Saucymynx wrote:Hello from the north! I have relocated from balmy Tennessee to the wilds of Michigan's Upper Peninsula (I know - crazy!). As I prepare for 7 months of winter,I need back up power. Renee
Have you ask your neighbors how long has been their longest power outage?

My experience, two weeks without electricity and powering the house in central Missouri with a generator set. Even with a generator set, that's a lot of gasoline and frequent tending the generator set. And then when the ice storms takes out the electric lines, local gas stations are also without power.

What source are you using to heat your house? If using propane, I suggest purchasing and installing propane fueled backup generator.

You can purchase a tractor powered generator set that has the capability of providing a steady 120/240 volts. But, if your going to spend the money and have a propane tank at the house, go propane.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Urbish » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:14 am

For what it's worth, I bought a NorthStar 8kW generator from Northern Tool a few years ago. It has a Honda engine and while not an inverter generator, it does have an idle mode that throttles it down when there is no load which saves a little fuel. I am very happy with it so far.

I see from your ZIP code that you're near Munising, the Lake Effect Snow Capital of the UP. I hope you have good snow removal equipment. As a former UP resident, I strongly advise a quality set of winter tires on your vehicle, whether or not it is 4WD.
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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Saucymynx » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:34 pm

Last year my neighbors were out of power for 7 days for the longest strtch, hence my urgency in getting a generator. I do plan on installing a propane-fired back up generatot, but that will have to wait till next year when I get my machinery building built. I did get a price on a Winco 10 KWPTO unit and the delivered price was $2700. I was surprised it was that much. I think I will look at an inverter generator, if I can find one in the 8 to 10 kW range. Yes, where I live gets lots of snow. 205 inches last year!I take delivery on Friday of an LSMT 573 with 7 foot blower, so I should be OK with the driveway maintenance. My house is heated with propane or wood. I have a Garn boiler that is plumbed right into my home heating system. It’s an amazing unit and I’m just figuring it out. Back on the generator topic, do any of you have a recommendation on an inverter generator?

Sorry that this thread has moved off topic from farmall‘s-should I move to another thread?

Eugene
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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Eugene » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:59 pm

Before you purchase a standby generator set you need to figure/know how many watts you consume.

There are running watts and surge/start up watts. You need to consider both. Make a list of appliances you need to operate during an outage.

You can stagger the start up wattage by turning on one appliance at a time. This is what we do with the freezers during the outages.

I'm using a 4 KW and an 8/10 KW generator set during power outages. As long as the voltage is set correctly - no problems.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: PTO generator?

Postby outdoors4evr » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:19 am

I don't see any issue with powering a 10 kw trailer mounted unit with a Farmall H.
The biggest challenge is maintaining a consistent RPM (frequency) with a changing load. A stand-alone generator unit would have a better tuned governor for handling that changing load.

Gas consumption on an H peaks at 6GPH, but most generator estimates fuel consumption at 50% load. On an H, that is about 3.5GPH.

Being that you can heat with wood, the Garn boiler (outdoor) would require a little electricity, but the blower in the furnace would eat the most power. 10KW should be more than enough if you have propane appliances (water heater, dryer, and stove).

They do make "Dual Fuel" generators. I have a propane / gasoline generator that accepts either fuel. The propane produces about 15% less power capacity than gasoline.
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Eugene
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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Eugene » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:18 am

7 days power outage times 24 = 168 hours, times 3.5 gallons per hour equals 588 gallons of gasoline. Since you won't need to run the generator set all the time during a 7 day power outage, divide the fuel consumption by 2. That equals approximately 294 gallons.

Current gasoling price in Linn, Mo. is $1.779 per gallon.

Take the time and calculate you minimal wattage, just enough to get by. Consider a portable duel fuel, gasoline/propane generator set with a higher wattage than your minimal expectation.
I have an excuse. CRS.

inairam
5+ Years
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Posts: 2851
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: PTO generator?

Postby inairam » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:07 am

I thought a great deal about this for my location. As far as a cub I think it makes little sense when there are used 5000 w generators around for 300-500. With are larger tractor it is a bit more practical but still, I think unless you already have the setup ( a real PTO gen-set ) it is not worth building your own PTO set up and them racking up hours on your tractor engine.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Urbish
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1958 International Cub LoBoy
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B
2022 Massey Ferguson GC1723E Subcompact

Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: PTO generator?

Postby Urbish » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:18 am

inairam wrote:I thought a great deal about this for my location. As far as a cub I think it makes little sense when there are used 5000 w generators around for 300-500. With are larger tractor it is a bit more practical but still, I think unless you already have the setup ( a real PTO gen-set ) it is not worth building your own PTO set up and them racking up hours on your tractor engine.


I considered getting a PTO generator to run off my H, but I wasn't nuts about relying on a 73 year old tractor to keep my house warm in the winter if necessary.
Jim

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Eugene
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Re: PTO generator?

Postby Eugene » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:08 pm

Transfer switch, power cables, and cable terminal ends?

How are you going to organize/install the generator set?
I have an excuse. CRS.


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