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Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

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Clemsonfor
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm
Zip Code: 29848
Tractors Owned: Yanmar YM2000
Yanmar YM186 (non running)
1952 Farmall Cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Greenwood County SC

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby Clemsonfor » Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:51 pm

burntmacncheese wrote:thanks for your replies.

As far as the ND30 oil - What I have been often been told is that if take this tractor that has always had ND30 oil and just switch it to modern 10w-30 or something that it would clean the engine and release stuck on sludge into the engine and clog the screens and filter and wreck the engine. The only way I was told that a modern oil would be possible is if I did a rebuild and opened it up and cleaned everything. I have even seen this information on this site, so I would not like to take that risk.

As far as stores - Yes I have been into the Tractor Supply in Leesburg the only ND30 oil I could find is the Traveller brand and it says "non-detergent multi-purpose lubricant" and it seems to be marketed for air compressors. My questions is this the same as ND30 motor oil? I am hesitant because I don't want to accidently put air compressor oil in my tractor.

Image

Also, here is a picture of #5281 in my neighborhood. I live in Purcellville, VA, so maybe you don't think its a suburb of DC, opinions vary. The tractor needs cleaning and a tune up, I am still working out how best to do those things.

Image


As said that's the same stuff. It's an antiquated oil and oil spec. Pretty much no one uses it in an engine anymore so instead of making different oils the same spec works on compressors. They market it for that. You have to remember that TSC oil is fine I use their house brand for oils and fluids and that oil is better than what was available 80 years ago when designing this engine. If your worried , drop the oil pan. It will take 10 minutes (since you don't have cultivators mounted), then 15 more to clean it up and put a new gasket or just use RTV and put it back on. You will see if there is sludge in the pan or on the rotating assembly.
But back to the oil quality anything is way better that what they had 70 years ago. You could probably fill it with 3 qts of kerosene and for the kind of use you put on it, it would run fine forever. Haha. I'm not recommending to use kerosene in place of oil it's just my point is that for your use it would work. Transmission fluid would work for that light duty...but it for sure would knock any crud loose if any.

I would just say think about your decision, consider what many of these guys, many may be close to double my age (I'm 40) are saying. They have decades of real world experience with this, not just reading on the internet. But in the end make the decision your comfortable with. ND30 will work and that tractor will last your life. I'd feel confident that modern oils also would be fine as well and give far superior cold start protection, which is where all your wear will come from anyway for your use. And a start at 80-90°f ambient temperature is still a cold start as far as an engine is concerned...it's just not as bad as a 20°f start is.

Clemsonfor
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm
Zip Code: 29848
Tractors Owned: Yanmar YM2000
Yanmar YM186 (non running)
1952 Farmall Cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Greenwood County SC

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby Clemsonfor » Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:55 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
inairam wrote:I would drain it and open the valve cover and spray diesel or kerosene in the valve area. Fill the oil pan with diesel or kerosene and let it sit for a bit.



If you decide to pull the valve cover, post a couple pictures of what you find. Then we can post some more contradictory advise!

:tractor: :lol: :lol: :lol: :tractor: :mrgreen:

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2834
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby inairam » Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:35 pm

Jim, this is just to clean the pan. The galleries and other internals will not be were affected/ cleaned. This would just be to avoid removing the pan.

My main point is removing the pan has risks of its own and removing the pan does not reduce the risks of clogging from the gunk in other parts of the engine.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Clemsonfor
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm
Zip Code: 29848
Tractors Owned: Yanmar YM2000
Yanmar YM186 (non running)
1952 Farmall Cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Greenwood County SC

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby Clemsonfor » Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:46 pm

inairam wrote:Jim, this is just to clean the pan. The galleries and other internals will not be were affected/ cleaned. This would just be to avoid removing the pan.

My main point is removing the pan has risks of its own and removing the pan does not reduce the risks of clogging from the gunk in other parts of the engine.

Not being a troll here. I'm just curious. What are the potential "dangers" removing an oil pan?

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Pap
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Zip Code: 38401
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub ( Err Err )
I could not say tractor when I was 2 years old so I called it Err Err.

I loved this tractor then and I still love it now.
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Columbia, Tennessee

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby Pap » Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:28 pm

Hey I am just going to Welcome you to the forum Burnt.
Good luck with your project and Enjoy Your Ride.
Are We Having Fun Yet ? :D
'47 cub ( Err Err )

Jim Becker
Team Cub
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Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:21 pm

The steps you take in switching to a detergent oil ultimately depend on how cautious you want to be concerning possible lubrication failure. Since everyone has their own degree of caution, it isn't surprising that different suggestions were presented. In this case, I thought the original poster expressed a fairly high level of concern. I corresponded accordingly.

Just for the fun of it, I thought I would answer a slightly different question: If I owned this tractor and either knew it had been run exclusively with non-detergent oil or did not know the history, what would I do with it? My answer: I'd run it to get it up to temperature, drain it (including the filter drain) while it was hot, let it drain at least overnight, put in a new filter, refill it with a modern 10W30, then never think about it again.

tldec50
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:16 pm
Zip Code: 30553
Tractors Owned: 1948 farmall cub tractor
1962 massey ferguson 35 diesel
1952 john deere mt
1955 john deere crawler
1941 ford business coupe
1959 el camino
1977 international cub
1969 int'l 154
1958 420w john deere
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Lavonia, Ga

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby tldec50 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:53 pm

Jim Becker wrote:The steps you take in switching to a detergent oil ultimately depend on how cautious you want to be concerning possible lubrication failure. Since everyone has their own degree of caution, it isn't surprising that different suggestions were presented. In this case, I thought the original poster expressed a fairly high level of concern. I corresponded accordingly.

Just for the fun of it, I thought I would answer a slightly different question: If I owned this tractor and either knew it had been run exclusively with non-detergent oil or did not know the history, what would I do with it? My answer: I'd run it to get it up to temperature, drain it (including the filter drain) while it was hot, let it drain at least overnight, put in a new filter, refill it with a modern 10W30, then never think about it again.

Best answer yet,exactly what I would do

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2834
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby inairam » Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:53 pm

Clemsonfor wrote:Not being a troll here. I'm just curious. What are the potential "dangers" of removing an oil pan?


Every time you put a wrench on an 70-80-year-old bolt you have to be prepared for something bad to happen. There are 18 - 5/16 bolts to remove and three of them are hard to get at. That is 18 chances to snap a bolt under the tractor which will be really fun to get out or to dill and retap. If the pan is warped it can be some work to get it to seal. Rounded bolt-head, lost original "dot" bolt on a 1947 - the list of bad keep going. If it is not leaking or damaged or I am not rebuilding the engine I leave the pan alone. I do not like to look for trouble.

I think Jim's plan of doing it hot is the safest plan.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

JimCub48
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Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby JimCub48 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:51 pm

I definitely agree with draining hot oil ,draining filter canister,changing oil filter, let it drain overnight, and I would roll the tractor front and back tires on the left side facing forward on short pieces of 2x4 ,this will tilt the tractor just enough to completely drain the oil pan. I would also prime the oil pump , sitting over night you may loose the prime.

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Denny Clayton
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Tractors Owned: Home to "Rusty", the 2007 and 2009 Cub Tug Champion.
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Location: OH, Sidney

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby Denny Clayton » Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:22 am

I'm not an advocate of non-detergent oils but given your apprehension to change, I would go ahead and use the TSC oil you pictured above. Air compressors likely run much hotter than your Cub does going for joyrides in the neighborhood. It is easily available to you and it should put your mind at ease.
'61 Lo-Boy
'60 FH Lo-Boy
'60 Lo-Boy
'57 FH Cub "Rusty" (CubTug winner 2007 & 2009)
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Clemsonfor
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm
Zip Code: 29848
Tractors Owned: Yanmar YM2000
Yanmar YM186 (non running)
1952 Farmall Cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Greenwood County SC

Re: Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

Postby Clemsonfor » Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:50 pm

inairam wrote:
Clemsonfor wrote:Not being a troll here. I'm just curious. What are the potential "dangers" of removing an oil pan?


Every time you put a wrench on an 70-80-year-old bolt you have to be prepared for something bad to happen. There are 18 - 5/16 bolts to remove and three of them are hard to get at. That is 18 chances to snap a bolt under the tractor which will be really fun to get out or to dill and retap. If the pan is warped it can be some work to get it to seal. Rounded bolt-head, lost original "dot" bolt on a 1947 - the list of bad keep going. If it is not leaking or damaged or I am not rebuilding the engine I leave the pan alone. I do not like to look for trouble.

I think Jim's plan of doing it hot is the safest plan.

I pulled mine without issue. I would think if someone is worried about that they would break free all the bolts first just to make sure. Sure you could snap one this way but hopefully if your taking a pan off you have an idea what torque you would be applying before twisting those size bolts off. The back three are more different but not what I would call hard. Many wrench types and universal joint sockets will fit. Rounded head bolt, get the welder and another nut out or just use vice grips that bite good. And loosening a round head bolt. If your a purist that would be a problem, if you want it to work just put what fits in there. If the round head bolt on your tractor that no one will see facing the ground bothers you, there are plenty for sale on eBay or other places. The warped pan is a concern, but hopefully a hammer and good bench can fix that and at worse RTV properly applied should seal it up once you draw it back up.

I do understand some folks apprehension here and if you feel it's more than you can handle, for sure leave it on and not worry. Another thought would be don't he-man and over torque the back three into the soft metal when you reinstall the pan.


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