The Incredible Coolant Vanishing Act

[Champion James]

So I feel compelled to stress yet again than I am a beginner in these matters, but after a couple years of neglecting the Cub I'm finally coming 'round to addressing some of her complaints.

High on my checklist is the radiator problem. Every time I mow I have to fill the radiator, and by the time I'm through with the 4 acres it's almost bone dry. I'm using 50-50 that I mix from Prestone and distilled water. My observations thus far:

1. Coolant isn't coming out of the overflow tube, 'cause I watch for this while I'm mowing.
2. I've never seen any steam or other evidence of overheating.
3. No smoky or anti-freeze smelling exhaust from the tailpipe.
4. I check the crankcase oil often, and it doesn't seem discolored or odd-smelling.
5. No visible dripping from anywhere or puddling on the shed floor. The coolant level only drops when the Cub's running.
6. There is a vague smell of anti-freeze that wafts up from the fan when it's running.

No engine trouble or performance problems, thankfully. Just a thirsty radiator. Must've gone through 4 gallons of anti-freeze so far this summer.

Surely you gents have the answer, but it's beyond me...

[BigBill]

Its either the radiator has a very small leak or a loose hose clamp. I would bet a loose hose clamp. Are your radiator hoses hard or brittle? It maybe time for new hoses if there that old.

[Rick Prentice]

Champion, you pretty much covered everything possible, which tells me you missed something. Maybe the leak is someplace where you can't see it from the seat when driving. Loosing that much coolant, there has to be an obvious leak someplace, running down something or dripping behind a blind spot.

My .02,
Rick

[Matt Kirsch]

You wouldn't see any steam if the overflow tube is sealed to the radiator properly, unless it was REALLY bad. Steam travels out the overflow tube under the hood and gets dissipated by the fan.

I'd also be surprised if you could see it leak while you're bouncing along AND trying to concentrate on where you're mowing. That's a lot to concentrate on, and I'd hope you're spending most of your time watching where you're going, not watching several locations on the tractor for a leak.

[Into Tractors]

Well, looks like you've checked the obvious things. You might try "Pressurizing" (Not Very Much Pressure though) your radiator using a rag/rubber stopper shoved into the radiator fill and "listen" and "watch" for the leak?

Odd's are it is so small and slow, you might not be able to detect it with the engine running?

[Rudi]

So I feel compelled to stress yet again than I am a beginner in these matters, but after a couple years of neglecting the Cub I'm finally coming 'round to addressing some of her complaints.

High on my checklist is the radiator problem. Every time I mow I have to fill the radiator, and by the time I'm through with the 4 acres it's almost bone dry. I'm using 50-50 that I mix from Prestone and distilled water. My observations thus far:

1. Coolant isn't coming out of the overflow tube, 'cause I watch for this while I'm mowing.
2. I've never seen any steam or other evidence of overheating.
3. No smoky or anti-freeze smelling exhaust from the tailpipe.
4. I check the crankcase oil often, and it doesn't seem discolored or odd-smelling.
5. No visible dripping from anywhere or puddling on the shed floor. The coolant level only drops when the Cub's running.
6. There is a vague smell of anti-freeze that wafts up from the fan when it's running.

No engine trouble or performance problems, thankfully. Just a thirsty radiator. Must've gone through 4 gallons of anti-freeze so far this summer.
Surely you gents have the answer, but it's beyond me...

CJ:

I get the same smell whenever Ellie is running. I have already done the head gasket.. it was blown - about 1-1/2 years ago. Then forgot to re-torque the head bolts.. did that and all seemed fine. I too have developed a slight aroma of coolant wafting from the fan area.. I am assuming that it is caused primarily by a little bit of overflow... not enough to notice, but enough to dribble down and the vapours/smell blown back via the fan. This would be mostly normal I would think

I have yet to notice any significant loss of fluid except for once right at the beginning of the season, and absolutely none since. I am a tad bit curious, not overly puzzled. Remember these engines in some cases are 60 years old and they like us develop unique idiosyncrasies over time.

However 4 gallons of coolant so far seems way too excessive for a non-problematic C-60. Recheck everything not once but multiple times. The problem is there.. Rick is right... something is missed.. and it may be a small problem that can develop into a much bigger problem. Do it safely however.. do not be craning your neck to see if you can see any leaks whilst you are in the drivers seat. When you notice the smell, put it in neutral, engage the brakes and dismount to visually check the radiator and head areas.

[magnumpi]

Are the plugs running clean ??? I'm thinking hairline crack in the head and/or block - let's hope not. Craig

[drspiff]

There is much discussion of "Broken Ear Syndrome" and since the ear in question is in the area of the coolant outflow... Could a broken ear on the block allow coolant to drain away?

I'm asking since I have the same problem. I fill the radiator and a day later it is bone dry. I'm not that far in my teardown to see exactly what is happening. So I'm making a list of things to look for as I get farther into the rehab.

Rick (Hoping for a leaky hose) Dulas

[Jim Becker]

The usual stress crack on the block opens into the crankcase. It often allows a little oil out but not typically coolant.

[George Willer]

The crack shows up in the front accessory case where the gears throw oil directly at it. I added an external brace to pull the crack closed and still have some oil leakage. I'm thinking both the front and rear seals are bad too, so it's hard to tell how successful it really is. In any case, it will prevent the crack from becoming worse.

http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22754

[Redman]

[Don McCombs]

When you say "bone dry", exactly what do you mean? How much 50/50 mix do you have to add and where do you fill it to?

[BigBill]

Since this is an older style cooling system the radiator won't stay exactly filled to the top. It will seek its own level during expanding and contracting from heating and cooling so being a little low is normal in this type of system(like the older cars with no recovery system).

After some heavy mowing in the high heat I did notice my int154 coolant was a little low, much lower than normal. I topped the radiator and it seeked its own level and is staying there now. I have no clue as to where the coolant went but its ok now. I think i cooked some anti-freeze off or boiled the water out of what was in there. I did also notice with the 5' belly mower in 90 degrees+ weather in second gear pushing it mowing it tends to run a tad hotter. I have now backed off on the throttle while mowing in the high heat. I just picked up a 6 bladed fan to replace my 4 bladed fan to add a little extra cooling for the system. I found it on ebay.

Are you running it hard in the high heat?

[Matt Kirsch]

That is true, and something I didn't consider. "Bone dry" in that you can't see coolant anymore, or in that the system has no fluid left in it?

The proper coolant level is at least 2" below the filler neck. At this level the upper tank is practically empty, and could take a signifigant amount of coolant to "top off." As soon as you start 'er up and get the engine warmed up, all that coolant you just put in is puked on the ground when you're not looking. This is perfectly normal, caused by the expansion of the coolant as it gets hot. There is no overflow container like on a modern vehicle, and the coolant has to go somewhere.

[Champion James]

Thanks everyone for the responses; I'm glad to see I'm not entirely alone in this and that it wasn't as silly a question as I imagined. Let me see if I can get the hang of this "quote" feature:

Are your radiator hoses hard or brittle? It maybe time for new hoses if there that old.

The hoses seem fine to my untrained eye; looks like they've been replaced in the last decade or so. I took the Cub out for a test mow this morning and then rechecked the hoses, and there was no evidence of a leak there.

Maybe the leak is someplace where you can't see it from the seat when driving. Loosing that much coolant, there has to be an obvious leak someplace, running down something or dripping behind a blind spot.

Very possibly so, but I've given it a good going-over directly after turning the tractor off after a decent run and haven't seen anything. Often I run a paper towel over everything I can think of to check for moisture or green coolant stains. No obvious culprit has turned up yet, but I could very conceivably be looking in the wrong places.

I'd also be surprised if you could see it leak while you're bouncing along AND trying to concentrate on where you're mowing

It's a big open field I'm mowing, with no obstacles, so thankfully I have the luxury of being able to safely mow whilst checking things out. I can see the overflow pretty clearly from the seat, and I have seen it dump coolant before when I've overfilled the radiator in the past, but I think I know more or less where her level is now and I don't think I'm overfilling. (Thanks much for the safety concern, though!)

You might try "Pressurizing" (Not Very Much Pressure though) your radiator

A while back a friend of mine stuck one of those hand-pump radiator pressure dealies on there and couldn't diagnose any problem that way. But not knowing anything about those, I can't vouch for the quality of the test performed.

Are the plugs running clean ???

Seemed clean when I checked the compression a ways back.

When you say "bone dry", exactly what do you mean?

After a good mow in 2nd gear at 3/4 throttle, it'll usually take between 3/4 and a 1 gal of coolant--without pushing any back out through the overflow next time.

The proper coolant level is at least 2" below the filler neck.

I've found this out from trial and error and the diagram in one of my manuals. I can only say that the disappearing act I'm talking about doesn't seem to be a problem of overfilling. I've put some toilet paper very loosely over the overflow tube (loose enough not to impede flow or air transfer), held by a small rubber band, and done a full mow with that rig on, and the coolant still disappeared without disturbing the TP.

Sorry for running on and on this big, it's just that this has been bugging me for a while.