cub lo-boy vs new craftsman garden tractor... which to buy

[Hengy]

I would think that the ONLY drawback to an FCub or a Loboy is the lack of a "live PTO" on the tractor. If you get in high grass and it starts to bog down, when you push the clutch, the blades will come to a stop. On lawn and garden tractors (as well as the Cub 154, I believe) they have a live PTO that stays engaged when you hit the clutch, thereby assisting in clearing the overload under the mower before you move forward into that tall grass again.

When I was a kid, I used to cut my uncle's field with grass and weeds up to the bolster on the tractor with the Woods 59 in either 1st (heavy wet grass) or 2nd (tall, but dry grass)...

Mike in La Crosse, WI

[Lurker Carl]

I don't recommend using 3rd gear for ANY operation involving mowers or other implements. They are not designed to be engaged at 6.5 miles per hour.

[Electronrider]

Since we are heaping praise on the cub choice, consider this: There are a LOT of attachments for the cub. You can do a lot of things with a cub, and the implements are just as tough as the cub, and they are relatively inexpensive.

[John in Ct]

If you keep your lawn at a reasonable height, a Cub, 154, 184, 185 will have no problem. If you can't cut it with those, I don't think a Craftsman will either. The Cubs HP is measured on the same scale used to measure farm tractors HP. Cubs are REAL Tractors. Having mowed for 30 years with a 154, I know I could mow my lawn ( hills and all) pulling a Craftsman. Someone said the Craftsman is 25 HP. A Farmall H is 28 HP. It would seem the Craftsman is almost as powerful as an H but in reality, it isn't even close!!

[Lurker Carl]

Don't fall for the Madison Avenue horsepower hype. Torque, torque, torque!

[Rick Spivey]

Can you tell it really "torques" Lurker Carl off to have this "horsepower" discussion?

I'm not gonna tell you anything the others haven't already, I'm just gonna say it my way.

I have three Cubs (one belongs to my son), a 1948, a 1949, and a 1952. They will all three cut grass, run a sickle mower, pull a plow, disk harrow, cultivator of various configurations, peg tooth harrow (ground leveling), belly mount or rear mount blade (I don't have the kit to put it up front), pull a trailer, ride in a parade, put smiles on kid's (and big kid's) faces, draw a crowd anywhere you park 'em, promote a discussion of impossible proportion on a stupid subject like which oil is best (the answer is any), and cause grown men (and women) to fly halfway across the country just to be around them.

They are (give me a bit of liberty here) 60 years old, that's right, SIXTY!

Has anyone ever even heard of a Craftsman Lawnmower Fest????

[Lurker Carl]

Can you tell it really "torques" Lurker Carl off to have this "horsepower" discussion?

Has anyone ever even heard of a Craftsman Lawnmower Fest????

Please forgive me for being torqued with horsepower ravings, I must be a gearhead.

Tractors are governed to run at a single engine speed. It only changes when the operator wants to increase or decrease speed within a gear selection. Since no acceleration is needed for normal operation, why rate engine horsepower for a vehicle that does not accelerate???

Advertisments hawk horsepower because that particular figure can be easily fudged. The horsepower ratings for commercial engines are generally calculated at their maximum horsepower output, typically well above their operational settings.

Horsepower is a calculation that estimates the amount of work an engine performs over time. Horsepower DECREASES as it gets delivered to the ground due to friction from engine accessories and the driveline. The more friction within the system, the more time it takes for the work to be done. When Madison Avenue geniuses subtract all the friction and boost engine speed beyond the operational limits, they get a big number to toss at unsuspecting consumers.

Torque, on the other hand, is a force that can be measured directly and INCREASES when geared down - not lost like horsepower. It can't be easily manipulated like horsepower numbers. Torque has no time variable, it is what it is. Torque ratings are difficult to manipulate because engines are designed to produce maximum torque within their operational settings.

Now with 18 horsepower! Buy me, I'm 20% more than last year! WOW!

Still 35 pound feet of torque! Buy me, I've been the same for 33 years! WOW!

Which is more appealing?


Sorry to burst your bubble, Rick. Gravely has an annual Mow-In and a few regional get togethers. But Cub fests are like family reunions. The Mow-In, not so much.

[Trent M]

Even an ugly LoBoy with a borrowed gas tank can mow

I hate to disagree with you Carl, but aside from the gas tank, I don't see anything ugly about that LoBoy!!

[Lt.Mike]

I have a '58 IH Cub Lo-Boy and a '04 JD L130 lawn tractor 48" cut. The Deere does 2 acres in 2 1/2 hours. While the cub has a Woods 59 deck I haven't tried it yet but I'd have to say it HAS to be superior in high grass.
In the real world the 9 1/2Hp cub has pulling power that the 24Hp Kohler engine can't come close to. The Cub can pull or tow things that would break the Deere.
You can't go by the Hp ratings, it isn't even close.
One other thing is that I can't keep blades on the JD. They wear down very fast, 2 sets a year with multiple sharpenings. The Woods blades are 1/4" thick! At least twice that of the Deere. I also use both tractors to plow snow. 6-10" tops for the Deere, the Cub hasn't met it's match yet.
Mike.

[BigBill]

My int154 cub has a live PTO. I have never had a problem with the PTO yet. I hit plenty of stumps so i'm sure if there was a problem with it, it would of showed up already. My last stump that i hit tore one of the mower deck brackets off. It put the tractor in the air too(it felt like it). The only damage done is i need new bolts on the mower deck bracket.
I told my son to cut the stumps flush with the ground and he left some around 4" high(little ones) and it bit me. I did hear the PTO clutch scream a little so i'm sure it works.

With the INT3260 60" mower deck; When i purchased my tractor the deck had a growl to it. I thought it was the bearings being bad. But one tube of grease later and tightening the center spindle that had play in it now its quiet as it was when it was new. Grease it and grease it good!!!!!
Again we know its neglect that causes most of the problems. These are awesome machines....

Don't under estimate the lower HP/rpm farmall cub too its torque that matters too. I pulled up roots from bushes with my cultivators on my farmall cub after i tilled it with the cub cadet i had some left over that wouldn't come up. The little red farmall cub would bit the roots, slow down then the govenor would kick in and out the roots came everytime. It almost threw me off the tractor the first time it did it. Those 8,3 ag's bit too.

The engineers lost something between the design of the newer twin cylinders when we even compare them to the older single cylinder 1 lungers too. Even my cub cadets seem to have more power or torque over the newer twins, i'm not sure what it is. They seem like there all rpm's and nothing else.

Our little tractor group here is having problems with a JD318 with all the bells and whistles but our older cub cadet 123 just needed the carb cleaned and she is good to go again. Its ugly/rusty but its still pulling the trailer. It just needs new paint. For the smaller tractors you can't beat the Kohler one cylinder engines.

[Lurker Carl]

The little red farmall cub would bit the roots, slow down then the govenor would kick in and out the roots came everytime. It almost threw me off the tractor the first time it did it.

BigBill, your governor is not working properly. The tractor should NOT slow down, the governor's job is to keep the tractor moving along a constant speed. You, as the operator, should only be aware of such changes by engine noise and not speed. Check the governor linkage for wear!

[Rudi]

Well I am going to muddy the soup here a bit. And this is just a comparison to the 2 mowers that I use. My IHCC-129 is not in the mix and neither is the MTD produced Co-Op Turf Trac 10Hp Riding Mower. In comparison to the Cub.. these two models listed below.. well, basically are wheel weights for Ellie..

I have an almost brandy new JD L-111. It is the JD Dealer version, not the cheaper Home Depot/Lowes version.



Hydrostat. Nice for mowing large areas quicker than a gear drive. It is a 20 hp (no load, on the bench, peak achieved) model. It has a hard time pulling itself along the side lines of my lawn where I have a bit of a grade. It cannot pull my little lawn trailer if it is loaded with more than 30% of the box filled with wet compost or grass. Haul wood.. well let's not go there. Not even my Logging Wagon under ideal conditions and 25% capacity. It does however cut most of my 2-3 acres of lawn in about 3 hours I guess.

Now a Parts Manual or a Service Manual for this thing is going to be a real circus event. I have been trying since we bought it to get these manuals. Not to be found so far....

Now my 1990 Sears Craftsman Deluxe 12.5 B&S I/C Gold and 38" deck engine mated to a Roper chassis.


(pic found on eBay)
The Roper deck left a lot to be desired even new for a mower deck. However, the 6 speed stick on the Crapsman meant that I could almost go and do anything I wanted within reason..... on hard ground. Not that I am a proponent, but.... IT was all the tractor I had to use around the house on a daily basis. I could haul my wood in my lawn trailer with it.. took a while, but if you got nothing to do.. it did the job. I hauled 9 ton of rock for the riprap barriers at the inlet and outlet sides of my trout pond. Took way too many trips was hard on gas, but it got the job done. Ellie would have done it without breaking a sweat. The Crapsman dragged a 4 foot hunk of 10x20 I-Beam to grade my driveway until I got Ellie.

The Crapsman excelled at cutting the grass on the side lines where I do have a grade.. and it excelled at cutting the grass between my tree plantation. It did a pretty good job with the Grass Clipping Collection System on the back. I want to mount that on my JD. Unfortunately cutting my lawn with the Crapsman was an all day and sometimes 2 day affair.

Was it better than a push mower? You betchabygollywowitwas. But it ain't no CUB!

Is it anything more than a Lawn Mower Not really. But of the modern mowers, it is probably one of the best. However, that is like saying mediocrity is something to aspire to. NOT! Seems today many of us will accept mediocre products like shy little lambs instead of standing up to the corporations and demanding quality for our hard earned and limited amounts of money.

Now a Cub is a Quality Piece of Equipment, designed to function in the role envisioned, and actually excells at roles not even imagined at the time of manufacture.

Plus... Rick is right. I don't see too many really old riding lawn mowers. Dad has an Eaton Simplicity from back in 1960.. but it has been barn kept and not used in 30 years. Not much help there though