This site uses cookies to maintain login information on FarmallCub.Com. Click the X in the banner upper right corner to close this notice. For more information on our privacy policy, visit this link: Privacy Policy
NEW REGISTERED MEMBERS: Be sure to check your SPAM/JUNK folders for the activation email.
i did a check on head bolt torque
Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:14 pm
- Zip Code: 14113
i did a check on head bolt torque
i took took the gas tank/hood off today and i checked the torque on my head bolts. several of them were a fair amount under spec of 45 FT/LBS. i know that you guys said that i most likely do not have antifreeze in my oil but i thought it was a good preventable measure and it surely did not hurt anything doing this. i also ran the tractor quite a bit and everything seems ok. i also re-examined the oil that came out of the tractor and it didnt really seem to have much mily appearance. i probably had a little condensation and i freaked out, im pretty anal about the maintenance of my tractor. i want to get many, many years out of my tractor until the day comes that i have to do an overhaul. would be nice to get another 20 years out of this engine before anything major has to be done to it, hopefully parts will still be available in another 20-30 years when i am an old man... lol. as long as im still healthy i would do the work myself and if i wasnt capable anymore i would pay someone, lol. im only 31 years old so hopefully i have a long way to go before i get to that stage in my life. sometimes im a little more anal with my tractor then i need to be, but that diligence is what is going to make it last.
-
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 28706
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
- Zip Code: E1A7J3
- Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1968 Cub Lo-Boy
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
McCormick 100 Manure Spreader
McCormick 100-H Manure Spreader
Post Hole Digger
M-H #1 Potato Digger - Circle of Safety: Y
- Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM
- Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
Depending on the condition of the mill at the present time, good maintenance practices and proper fluids will extend the life of your Cub's mill for many years. You just may get another 20 years out of it before you have to rebuild.
Hmmm.... I think I resemble that -- I am 58 and do not consider myself an old man -- a little crispy around the edges but not that old And yeah, it still seems like only yesterday when I was 31 and a father of 2 ...
...ad356 wrote:hopefully parts will still be available in another 20-30 years when i am an old man... lol.
Hmmm.... I think I resemble that -- I am 58 and do not consider myself an old man -- a little crispy around the edges but not that old And yeah, it still seems like only yesterday when I was 31 and a father of 2 ...
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:36 am
- Zip Code: 02840
- Tractors Owned: 1949 cub "sexy-sadie", serial #86662, 189 moldboard plow, Mott, Brookfield Buzz saw, planet Jr.'s
- Location: Newport, Rhode Island
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
Shucks, I didn't get my cub (first tractor) until I was more than 60. Now that it's overhauled and restored, I'm hoping I could get the next 20-30 years out of it.
1949 cub (sexy-sadie), 193 moldboard plow, w/notched colter, planet Jr's. By Paul
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 804
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:55 pm
- Zip Code: 47119
- Skype Name: ntrenn
- Tractors Owned: 63 Cub 221833 in family since '69
65 Lo-boy 19648 with an un-stuck #4 - it lives!!!
144 Cultivators with disc hillers
193 Plow
42C mower
59L mower mounted on the Fcub
23A Disc - lost possession - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Indiana
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
We've had the red cub since about 1969 and it survived me as a teenager, hayrides, mowing hillsides, plowing garden, and hilling sweet potatoes with a layoff plow. It still mows grass every week in season and did a fine job pulling the Woods 59 this summer, even at its advanced age of 49. It's never been overhauled or restored.
With proper maintenance, you should be able to get at least 20 years of modern use out of it, if not another 30 or 40 years. At that point, you may only need to re-ring and go.
The loboy was USED when I got it, and even with all it had been through, a set of rings, hone job, valve grind and it's back running - even though it has 0.002 wrist pin clearance, the knock is barely audible when cold. Amazing what these little tractors will endure and still keep kicking....
With proper maintenance, you should be able to get at least 20 years of modern use out of it, if not another 30 or 40 years. At that point, you may only need to re-ring and go.
The loboy was USED when I got it, and even with all it had been through, a set of rings, hone job, valve grind and it's back running - even though it has 0.002 wrist pin clearance, the knock is barely audible when cold. Amazing what these little tractors will endure and still keep kicking....
-
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 7508
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
- Zip Code: 02769
- Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Ma. Rehoboth
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
Rudi wrote:Depending on the condition of the mill at the present time, good maintenance practices and proper fluids will extend the life of your Cub's mill for many years. You just may get another 20 years out of it before you have to rebuild....ad356 wrote:hopefully parts will still be available in another 20-30 years when i am an old man... lol.
Hmmm.... I think I resemble that -- I am 58 and do not consider myself an old man -- a little crispy around the edges but not that old And yeah, it still seems like only yesterday when I was 31 and a father of 2 ...
Rudi, admit it! You're OLD! (You know how they say, "it takes one, to know one", I'm one, so I KNOW! Ed
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 am
- Zip Code: 44134
- Tractors Owned: 1949 & 1951 Farmall Cubs
Several Snapper Garden Tractors - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Southern Suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
ntrenn wrote: it survived me as a teenager
For as well built and as long as these Cubs have survived, you would have thought IHC had a group of teenagers on the R&D team.
Spy video from a Snapper Testing Facility: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=CTJItscC ... TJItscCooc
"HAVE ALL YOUR DELIVERIES MADE BY UNION DRIVERS"
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2929
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Location: MO, Potosi
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
Hey.......wait a minute........I'm 49. I don't consider it an advanced age. When I was 20, yeah 50 was ancient. But now that I'm 49, 50 isn't that old at all.ntrenn wrote:.............. even at its advanced age of 49.....
-
- Team Cub
- Posts: 17279
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
- Zip Code: 55319
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: MN
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
Scrivet wrote:When I was 20, yeah 50 was ancient. But now that I'm 49, 50 isn't that old at all.
Old is twice your own age. When you can't find anyone twice as old, you are old.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:14 pm
- Zip Code: 14113
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
so are there still going to be parts available for these tractors 20-30 years from now to do rebuilds? i hope so, they seem to be a popular enough tractor with no modern equivalents. sure you can buy a sub compact but they are built nowhere near as well and they cost allot of money. a cub will do the same job with allot less money spent, and the cub will outlast it by far, if you take care of it. my wife was complaining about how much i spent on my cub and i laughed, i told her that she wont be complaining when i still have it 20+ years from now. i was wondering, it seems like no longer produced parts include the starter and the generator. how do you deal with some parts that are no longer made?
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 7703
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:31 pm
- Zip Code: 10314
- Location: NY Staten Island & Franklin
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
Jim Becker Twice as old doesn't work so well for me. At 80 there are no 160 years old to compare to.
Bill
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
-
- Team Cub
- Posts: 17279
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
- Zip Code: 55319
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: MN
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
beaconlight wrote:Jim Becker Twice as old doesn't work so well for me. At 80 there are no 160 years old to compare to.
The conclusion is obvious.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/05/besse-cooper-worlds-oldest-person-dies-at-age-116/
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 7703
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:31 pm
- Zip Code: 10314
- Location: NY Staten Island & Franklin
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
Yes I read that in this mornings paper and was thinking about the story as i tongue in cheek commented. I only hope for 108 so the record is safe. All my life i had hoped to live 10 years longer than my dad. A while after he had passed on I commented to a friend of his in Chinatown NY that I had hoped for 10 years more than dad. Peter Eng jumped up and down, shook me and stated that was no good. I said Peter why not. He answered that 108 was a good number in Chinese. Immediately that became my new goal.
Edited to add.
Seriously checking the head bolts is a very good thing but remember that the bolts will not be a tight as they were at that torque as they were when the bolts nice and clean when originally installed
Edited to add.
Seriously checking the head bolts is a very good thing but remember that the bolts will not be a tight as they were at that torque as they were when the bolts nice and clean when originally installed
Bill
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 804
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:55 pm
- Zip Code: 47119
- Skype Name: ntrenn
- Tractors Owned: 63 Cub 221833 in family since '69
65 Lo-boy 19648 with an un-stuck #4 - it lives!!!
144 Cultivators with disc hillers
193 Plow
42C mower
59L mower mounted on the Fcub
23A Disc - lost possession - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Indiana
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
I've read this 2 or 3 times and I really have to disagree with people just going out and checking head bolt torque.
As stated earlier, 45-50 as called out in the Blue Ribbon Service Manual is really high for a standard 3/8-16 bolt. Standard Grade 8 torque is 36/43 ft-lbs. At the upper limit, the bolts are at about 100,000 psi tensile stress and are clamping with about 8000 lbs/bolt.
1. Based on the installation in the C60 engine, most of the bolts are wet. Proper installation in this type of application is to use thread sealant. Retorquing bolts after the sealant has set defeats the purpose of the sealant and can result in water leaks into the bolt shank area which will corrode the bolt and possibly cause disassembly issues in the future. These are a nightmare to fix as anybody knows that has ever fixed one.
2. Depending on the sealant used, the breakaway torque may be considerably higher or lower than 45 ft-lbs, so retorquing may not correct a perceived undertorque condition as its prevailing torque may inhibit the movement of a bolt that has excessively relaxed.
3. The head bolt system is designed with a grip length that is stretched when the bolt is torqued. It is designed to relax and flex with changes in temperature and with age. Just because the torque has dropped does not mean that the system is not working correctly. The old flathead Fords had a retorque requirement after an initial heat cycle, but I do not see IHC calling for a retorque. More than a few of us have had 8N's blow a second head gasket because we forgot to retorque.
4. Just because the head bolts may have relaxed a few ft-lb does not mean that a blown head gasket is impending. With the steel/fiber gasket, some relaxation is expected.
My vote - if it's not leaking, leave them be.
As stated earlier, 45-50 as called out in the Blue Ribbon Service Manual is really high for a standard 3/8-16 bolt. Standard Grade 8 torque is 36/43 ft-lbs. At the upper limit, the bolts are at about 100,000 psi tensile stress and are clamping with about 8000 lbs/bolt.
1. Based on the installation in the C60 engine, most of the bolts are wet. Proper installation in this type of application is to use thread sealant. Retorquing bolts after the sealant has set defeats the purpose of the sealant and can result in water leaks into the bolt shank area which will corrode the bolt and possibly cause disassembly issues in the future. These are a nightmare to fix as anybody knows that has ever fixed one.
2. Depending on the sealant used, the breakaway torque may be considerably higher or lower than 45 ft-lbs, so retorquing may not correct a perceived undertorque condition as its prevailing torque may inhibit the movement of a bolt that has excessively relaxed.
3. The head bolt system is designed with a grip length that is stretched when the bolt is torqued. It is designed to relax and flex with changes in temperature and with age. Just because the torque has dropped does not mean that the system is not working correctly. The old flathead Fords had a retorque requirement after an initial heat cycle, but I do not see IHC calling for a retorque. More than a few of us have had 8N's blow a second head gasket because we forgot to retorque.
4. Just because the head bolts may have relaxed a few ft-lb does not mean that a blown head gasket is impending. With the steel/fiber gasket, some relaxation is expected.
My vote - if it's not leaking, leave them be.
-
- Team Cub Mentor
- Posts: 6018
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:34 am
- Zip Code: 06040
- Tractors Owned: 77 Cub (red); 74 Cub; 52 Cub; 50 Cub ( post-demo)
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: CT, Manchester
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
I would only re-torque a Cub head gasket after a new gasket is installed. After that, I would leave it alone.
-
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 28706
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
- Zip Code: E1A7J3
- Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1968 Cub Lo-Boy
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
McCormick 100 Manure Spreader
McCormick 100-H Manure Spreader
Post Hole Digger
M-H #1 Potato Digger - Circle of Safety: Y
- Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM
- Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Re: i did a check on head bolt torque
bob in CT wrote:I would only re-torque a Cub head gasket after a new gasket is installed. After that, I would leave it alone.
Precisely
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 2
- 195
-
by JustJim
Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:44 am
-
- 2
- 248
-
by tst
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:28 pm
-
- 5
- 220
-
by Clemsonfor
Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:11 pm
-
-
Torque tube mounting bolt size Attachment(s)
by Workinprogress » Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:24 pm » in Farmall Cub - 3
- 230
-
by Nelson 634
Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:54 am
-
-
- 2
- 429
-
by inairam
Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:59 am
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests