discharge nozzle in carburetor

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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Eugene » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:02 pm

Boss Hog wrote:Guys yawl need to get on the same page :D , Eugene they will leak around the threads if the gasket is not sealed, how ever I opt for a new gasket , not a sealer
I is on the same page.
Arnold wrote:The excess fuel is pouring out of the discharge nozzle, but it appears to be above the gasket and above the nut.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Arnold » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:50 pm

Thanks to all for your info and help.
I opened the carb, reset the float to the correct tolerances (original tolerances were different and it ran well, I just wanted to stop the gushing leak through the overflow port) then went through more tests. I found a new needle valve and seat same as the original (Kohler 702024, two notches on sides, square small rubber tipped needle. The IH carb was bought from Case/IH and they sent the larger trianglular needle and valve, which I read here is the wrong one.) I poured rubbing alcohol into the bowl and saw it rise in the discharge nozzle. There was no leaking at the nut nor gasket, and nut was not cranked down hard on the gasket. The discharge nozzle does appear to be machined as one piece. I poured alcohol down a tube into carb fuel inlet, held the float up which held the needle to stop the flow, no leakage. I released the float to allow flow to continue and the needle was stuck, moved the needle and fluid poured out. This happened repeatedly. I retested float in near boiled water and had no air bubbles, float does not take on fluid. The new gasket between halves is cork and doesn't appear to be obstructing the float since I can hear it when I turn the carb over. After all that I applied the permatex #2, small amount with toothpick to the nozzle gasket and to the (needle valve) seat gasket. I'll let it sit tonight and install carb tomorrow. Hopefully she won't leak.
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:09 pm

Arnold, The IH needle and seat are actually the better choice. The viton tips will sometimes stick. If you have continuos problems with that happening, put the new Ih seat and needle in.

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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:31 pm

Bob McCarty wrote:Arnold, The IH needle and seat are actually the better choice. The viton tips will sometimes stick. If you have continuos problems with that happening, put the new Ih seat and needle in.
Bob

I think he found that out, Bob. :D
I released the float to allow flow to continue and the needle was stuck, moved the needle and fluid poured out. This happened repeatedly.
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:39 pm

Don, I'm not sure that he changed out the needle and seat though.

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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:46 am

Arnold wrote:I've replaced with new seat and needle...
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Arnold » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:54 am

I put in the notched seat and valve, bought through NAPA as a Kohler kit. This seat is the same as the one that was in the carb when I purchased the IH carb. When I ordered from Case/IH a new seat and valve they sent me the triangular larger seat and valve, which was not the same as the original. Both types of valves have rubber tips.
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Bob McCarty » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:02 am

Arnold, The OEM would be a solid needle and seat like this: Image (picture from TM Tractor). The viton tipped needles are all from aftermarket kits. What I was trying to explain was that if your viton tipped needle continutes to stick you may need to get a solid, OEM one.

Bob

Edit: I don't think IH makes the carbs anymore. So the aftermarket manufacturer is probably using the viton needle as a less expensive alternative to the original solid. Do you still have the original carb, and is there any reason you chose not to clean/rebuild it?
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Arnold » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:34 am

I talked with TM and he said IH sells the same needle and seat so I bought from IH figuring less chance of foul up since I bought their carb. I should go to the steel needle like you say. I bought the IH carb due to lack of knowledge, and time to fuss with it. When I get into hair pulling situations like resetting this carb when all I wanted to do was stop the leaking, it urns out to be cost effective to buy new. Had I known about this forum at the time I would have thought differently.
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Bob McCarty » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:50 am

Arnold, A lot of carbs are rebuilt with the viton tipped needles without having the sticking problem. You might just try swapping the needles and see if that eliminates the sticking. If you have the opportunity to attend a Cubfest, bring your old carb with you and you should be able to find someone to assist you in rebuilding it. For now, we just need to help you get this carb working correctly so you can use your Cub.

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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Arnold » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:29 am

She's alive! The gasket sealant seems to have been the answer. I looked down the air intake and watched closely for the deluge to begin .... dry as a bone. Started right up. Now I need to read up on governor adjustments and fuel mixtures settings.
I forgot that the reason for the new IH carb was that the old original carb had warped. Unfortunately I don't have the old one.

Here is a curious question: The IH carb and gaskets ran fine for 6 years, battery or crank start, I never turned the main fuel line cock off, suddenly there is a huge leakage and I do these repairs. When I checked the float measurements the 3/16" clearance tab was off by a good bit and the float height was off too. Could the pressure of the fuel and winter/summer expansion contractions cause the clearance tab to bend or were those the settings from when the IH carb was installed?

Thanks again for everyone's help in getting this solved.
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Arnold » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:24 am

I spoke too soon. I ran the cub a little bit, went to the gas station to fill up my gerry can with gas, came back and the carb is leaking a deluge. It appears to be coming from the port above the choke flap. There is one spring loaded screw on this carb which I never touched. Is the screw involved in the leaking?
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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Rudi » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:30 am

Arnold:

That is the idle screw .. simply adjusts the air flow.

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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Bob McCarty » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:12 pm

I'm not sure how you define "deluge", but the two main places that would cause a lot of leakage are where the gas line threads into the carb, and if the needle valve is leaking. You may need to turn off the gas at the sediment bowl, allow the carb to dry off and then slowly open the sediment bowl valve to see where the leak is. See if the gas is running down the outside of the carb (from the gas inlet), or running from the inside of the carb out.

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Re: discharge nozzle in carburetor

Postby Arnold » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:08 pm

The visible leak is inside the air intake chamber from a port in the cylinder wall above and behind the shutter assembly.
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