Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

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Shane Nelson
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:09 pm

The 3 axis milling machine has an engraving cycle. Decided to engrave this prototype, 50-75 years from now when someone opens it up they’ll be like who was this guy?
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EE3231F7-35A3-4EDE-BBD5-4DF01557870F.jpeg
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Rick Prentice
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Rick Prentice » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:38 pm

Gotta Love technology :worthy: I still use hand stamps or a dremel engraver.
Rick

My next question to the membership that has to do with installing a fresh retainer. I would think the perfect installation would be with the oil pan removed, and the 5 bolt holes in the retainer cleaned for some clearance. The retainer then installed onto the crank so it basically centers itself without any outside persuation. Then carefully install the 5 retainer bolts tight, then install the pan. I've had retainers cone to me with some of the 5 bolt holes distorted from over torque. Also I would think if the oil pan was still in place and there was a buildup of sealer or swelled gasket, that would throw the retainer off center to the crank. IH did not use dowels to center things. Any thoughts from anyone.
When I told my dad I've been misplacing things and doing stupid stuff----His reply---"It only gets better"

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Dale Finch
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:04 pm

Sounds like a good plan...similar to the instructions for the front engine seal...not tightening the engine cover bolts until the pulley is installed, so it centers into the seal.

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BIGHOSS
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby BIGHOSS » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:19 pm

The only question that I have is the edge distance (ED) of the mounting holes. Most of my career was spent in the aircraft industry where ED was a valid concern for air frame parts. ED is the distance from the center of mounting hole to the edge of part. Most likely not a problem here because of the thickness of the material, but I thought if not a clearance problem, the ED might be increased. Most use a rule of thumb for ED to be no less than the bolt diameter. Just my two cents.

Awesome job Shane.
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Shane Nelson
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:55 pm

I will be pulling the pan and installing a new gasket, it’s hard and leaky and I think you nailed it Rick. It’s the correct way to do it.
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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Landreo » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:15 pm

I have replaced retainers only a few times and have done it differently each time. For a 1950's Dodge truck I have, the retainer is ment to be aligned with a jig that apparently fits around the shaft somehow. I did not have one so I used a piece of PVC pipe and a fitting to get the thickness, turned it to match the OD of the shaft and the ID of the bore with a allowance for clearance, parted off a ring, and placed that in the retainer next to the seal. The retainer was placed on the shaft and tightened. The plastic ring was then removed with pliers. I have done the same thing with a cub. The last seal I replaced was on a 154 that was intact so I just did as Rick suggested. Align the oil pan dead last. If the engine is removed then I think a better way is to stand the engine on end so gravity is not working against you. For the seal to seal the alignment is not critical, important but not critical. However, for longest life of the seal, the alignment is critical. An alignment ring is not complicated to make and would be one way to get accurate alignment with the engine either vertical or horizontal.

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Shane Nelson
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Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:39 am

If anyone’s wondering what the difference is between an R1 and an R2 retainer here it is. Both of these are standard bore. IH added material, but not much.
Attachments
FA68BBC7-C799-4823-B864-CFADA3BF56AF.jpeg
6F2F36AB-CBD6-4AEF-8C76-C597B1F4AFD4.jpeg
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
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Shane Nelson
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1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:59 am

Made a new gasket for the retainer. Here's a hole punch I used for those that haven't seen one.
Attachments
IMG_4774.jpg
IMG_4771.jpg
IMG_4773.jpg
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
Circle of Safety

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Shane Nelson
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Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am
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Tractors Owned: .
1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:00 am

Bored the retainer out on the lathe.
Attachments
IMG_4767.jpg
IMG_4768.jpg
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
Circle of Safety

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Shane Nelson
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1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:01 am

Counter-bored the holes because the bottom 2 would hit the flywheel. I did all 5 just because. I used a 1" long socket head cap screw with a high collar lock washer.
Attachments
IMG_4775.jpg
IMG_4776.jpg
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
Circle of Safety

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Shane Nelson
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Tractors Owned: .
1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:02 am

Took some rough sand paper and roughed up where the gaskets go.
Attachments
IMG_4777.jpg
IMG_4778.jpg
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
Circle of Safety

User avatar
Shane Nelson
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Tractors Owned: .
1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:03 am

Got the retainer installed. I'm taking the oil pan over to my friend at the powdercoat place so he can burn it off for me. I want to go ahead and put a fresh coat of primer on it while I got it off.
Attachments
IMG_4779.jpg
IMG_4780.jpg
IMG_4781.jpg
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
Circle of Safety

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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby ricky racer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:05 am

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Shane Nelson
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Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am
Zip Code: 27284
Tractors Owned: .
1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby Shane Nelson » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:06 am

I just ordered an oil pan gasket ($7.29 FPG OS5604C) from NAPA and found this rear main seal kit, it has a gasket and a seal for $25.99 https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FPBBS40024 Wish I'da seen that before ordering one from Messick's, I'da went that route to see if it holds up.
God is good, all the time!
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Make prayer a 1st priority, instead of a last resort.
Circle of Safety

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Re: Crankshaft Seal Retainer~~Prototype~~

Postby AL Farmall Boy » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:35 am

Rick Prentice wrote:Gotta Love technology :worthy: I still use hand stamps or a dremel engraver.
Rick

My next question to the membership that has to do with installing a fresh retainer. I would think the perfect installation would be with the oil pan removed, and the 5 bolt holes in the retainer cleaned for some clearance. The retainer then installed onto the crank so it basically centers itself without any outside persuation. Then carefully install the 5 retainer bolts tight, then install the pan. I've had retainers cone to me with some of the 5 bolt holes distorted from over torque. Also I would think if the oil pan was still in place and there was a buildup of sealer or swelled gasket, that would throw the retainer off center to the crank. IH did not use dowels to center things. Any thoughts from anyone.


That would be nice to label specialty tools for people down the road cleaning up my "junk" so they would know what it was and it doesn't get thrown out. Those Cub axle Wedges would be a great candidate to label! Wish I had access to one myself!
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