230 charging issue

[FREEDOM FARMER]

I have a 230 that won't charge. I have taken the generator off and tested field coils. Nothing shorted to ground nothing open. I get 2.4 ohm total. 1.2 ohms each coil. insulated terminals a and f are not grounded. brush holders a and f are insulated from frame the third brush holder is grounded. I have A and F terminal wired per diagram for "A" circuit 3 brush externally grounded internally sourced field. The voltage regulator is a 1118308 regulator wired per diagram. nothing nothing nothing! I am frustrated.
Found a thread where it was decided that the internal field coil ( opposite end from field connection) should be on the brush 180 degrees from ground brush and A terminal wired to brush 40degrees from that. So I thought yay...... until the smoke rolled out from under the generator inspection cover.....
If I was frustrated before...
So back to researching the internet. from the tractor parts online sources they say the regulator is designed for 2 brush generators with no mention of what to use for 3 brush generators. This set up did charge at one point. Had the instrument cluster rot out and it shorted some wires where the charge indicator went nuts. So I am thinking the regulator is bad and will replace it and change wires back on the generator. but
Is this the right regulator? I have found diagrams for 2 wire generators and can combine the field coil wire with A terminal so that I am using the 2 brushes 180 degrees from each other and the F terminal will connect to the " other field coil end.

Looking for an answer or direction. I can convert to 12 volt but hate to be defeated by something that has only so many possibilities.
any help would be appreciated

[tst]

follow the steps

[Jim Becker]

. . . Found a thread where it was decided that the internal field coil ( opposite end from field connection) should be on the brush 180 degrees from ground brush and A terminal wired to brush 40degrees from that. . . .

This bit of misinformation has been floating around the internet about forever. Every so often somebody finds it and compounds their trouble. Think about it, you want more voltage out the A terminal than is used to power the field!

The regulator number you quoted is a correct number for a 3-brush generator without an ADJUSTABLE third brush. That should be what you have.

Check all your grounds, put the wires all back where they belong (where they were when it worked!), check the grounds again, then go through the flow chart that tst posted. Then consider buying some parts. By the way, people typically have bad luck with the imported regulators.

[FREEDOM FARMER]

Okay. Checked everything I can think of. Everything for field coil opens or shorts, brushes etc all read good. So no damage from smoke other than I could see heat signs on brush wires.
Put all wires back where they belong.
Read out the regulator. Got coils to work when I put bench power to them. Cleaned contacts. Did everything in flow chart. Still nothing. Generator does not produce any power. Cut out does not make contact while running. No spark when polarizing. Absolutely nothing.
Going to replace regulator anyway.
Then field coils and brushes.
Something has to eork

[Jim Becker]

Directly ground the generator F terminal. Then check voltage at the generator A terminal. It will either have adequate voltage to charge (like 7+) or not. If the voltage is there, the generator is working. If not, there is a generator problem. Almost any other combination of symptoms points to the regulator or wiring.

[Eugene]

Going to replace regulator anyway. Then field coils and brushes. Something has to work

If you want something reliable, consider 12 volt single wire alternator conversion. The alternator will cost a bit less than a voltage regulator. Additional costs include a 12 volt battery, ballast resistor for the ignition coil, and light bulbs.

[tst]

follow the flow chart 1 step at a time, it will lead you to the problem if followed correctly

[FREEDOM FARMER]

One thing that I have trouble with is the term ground. The entire tractor frame is positive so generator shell and regulator frame is positive. When you say ground f terminal to ground my mind says battery negative. This brings me to the question where does this charge system get its negative? It can’t be getting its positive through the frame and then add positive to f terminal and work can it?
I put one lead of my voltmeter to battery negative. The positive lead to generator frame voltage regulator frame relays etc and all read battery voltage.

[Jim Becker]

. . . When you say ground f terminal to ground my mind says battery negative. . .

Tell your mind to quit saying that. The battery is connected with positive ground -- positive connected to the tractor chassis. Thus anything electrically connected (including the F terminal) to the tractor chassis is connected to the positive battery terminal. The other end of the circuit inside any component needs a negative connection to function. A generator can operate connected either way but has to be polarized for the intended setup. If polarized for a positive ground, the insulated brush (A connected) and the third brush (field coil connected) will both provide a negative voltage (measured to any chassis ground). The generator should be polarized after any maintenance work involving charging components. Most regulators don't care. Ammeters have to be wired correctly or will read backwards.

Don't even think about doing a 12-volt conversion without understanding this. Most 12-volt conversions involve changing to a negative ground.

[FREEDOM FARMER]

download/file.php?id=51490&mode=view

Okay yesterday I took apart the electrical panel. Installed new switch and ammeter( 30 a vs the 60 that was there). Found that the ammeter positive was wired to batt terminal of regulator and negative terminal of ammeter wired to L of regulator. That’s it. Nothing coming of negative to switches. No wonder ammeter didn’t work. L terminal wire went to power on off switch which controls power to coil and lights. Negative of ammeter went to starter terminal with battery negative. Now ammeter shows draw.

Installed new regulator. Was able to get spark when polarizing gen and battery terminals. When grounding field terminal I get 10amps.
All seems good. But then I read post above and am still not sure of generator brush wiring.
Jim you ran lead on that conversation as well. Thanks for your help on all this. In that thread it showed two ways to wire the field coil and A terminal to the insulated brushes. Which drawing is correct one for fixed third brush positive ground charging?

Does A wire to brush 180 from grounded brush or does the field coil.? I don’t want to burn up field coils as you mentioned. Hopefully last guestion I do appreciate the help

[Jim Becker]

Inside the generator, the A terminal should connect directly to the brush 180 degrees from the grounded brush. The third brush that is less than 180 degrees from the grounded brush connects to the field coil.

Edit:
Go to the PDF manuals:
Service Manuals/Blue Ribbon Service Manuals
GSS-1310 Electrical Fundamentals 11-65
Look at pages 44 and 45.

[FREEDOM FARMER]

I made the change and am charging now! grounding the field terminal pegs the meter. battery voltage rising. and most of all no white smoke..
Thanks for all the help!!

[CharlieK]

good ending