IH 404 -vs 424??? Opinions Please

[gitractorman]

Hello all.
I've been away for a long time. A lot has happened in my life in the past few years. Nothing bad, but two kids in college (one now graduated and back at home), emergency gallbladder surgery (and previous 6-months of being sick and not knowing why.... thinking I'm dying), restored the Farmall M (then was super disappointed that it was WAY too big for my place and ended up having to sell it), became a partner in my company and took on a TON more work and responsibility. So, anyway, tractors have kind of taken a back burner for a while.

Last winter I spent my spare time restoring my grandfather's old Mitsubishi tractor (for fun) and realized it's really too small for my needs.

So, now I'm looking again at something a little bigger. I've kind of narrowed down my search to the IH 404 size tractors, kind of light, around 40-hp, lower to the ground (than a Farmall), hopefully can run a 6-ft brush hog. Also, even though there's literally thousands of Ford 8n/9n/powermaster/etc. tractors for sale, if I'm going to have to work on something old, I want an IH.

Here's two tractors I've found and possibly interested in:
IH 404 in "decent" shape, 4-spd tranny, gas, old tires, most tin is there and clean, just missing the white hood panels and emblems.
IH 424 in good shape. Complete, 4 NEW tires, 4-spd tranny with high/low, gas, full set of wheel weights.

I'm leaning towards the 424 since it's in better shape and has all new tires, and really like the idea of the high/low tranny and differential lock, and it's only about $900 more than the 404, but the tires easily make up for that.

I'm interested in anyone's opinions/thoughts/advice.

Thanks,
Bill

[Super A]

My dad faced the same question in 1967. He went with a brand new 424. There were several 404s and 424s in my area, and I have a 404 in my collection now.

Both are good. The 404 is a direct descendant of the Super C. If you park one beside it, you can see the family resemblance immediately. The 424 gas was built from the flywheel back in Doncaster England and then finished at Louisville. 404 and 424 look nearly the same from a distance but they are very different animals.

I don't know about the 404 (yet) but the biggest thing to watch out for mechanically on the 424 is the three point hitch. Make sure it functions properly. If it doesn't it is hard to work on and some parts are getting a little scarce. After that, be aware that if the 424 does not have power steering (an option back then) it will drive like a log cart. It takes a LOT of effort to steer. 404 without power steering handles much better.

The 424 is a little heavier. It's also borderline indestructible. If you pull them up side by side, the 424 rear end, transmission, and hitch arms are beefier. It's related to the B-414 IH and some of the early Mahindra tractors sold in the US.

The 8 speeds on the 424 are handy.

Turning radius on the 424 was a smidge tighter.

I don't think the 404 was offered with live PTO. it was optional on the 424--used a two-stage clutch.

Both use the IH disk brakes, so that means they may stop, they may stop really well, or they may not stop at all! Our 424 will lock the right wheel up. The left brake is like steppin' on a plum.....

424 gas engine is in the same family as the 113/123 but it does not have sleeves. The C-135 in the 404 is a little different variant than the C-135 in earlier IH tractors. I haven't tried to buy anything major yet but some engine parts (sleeves and pistons I think?) are a little tricky to find. The typical tune-up parts on either are the same as for a Super A, 140, etc.

From what you describe, the 424 may be the better option if it checks out mechanically and if it has power steering.

Naturally, would love to see pics of what you end up with!

Al

[SONNY]

404 was great! I got one. It has power steering and dual hyd. valve bank on it. did have a loader on it when I got it but since I despise loaders on tractors, --- it came off and was sent to the junkyard.
Only having 4 gears it struggled on the KK72" tiller but I got along with it for many years. Motor went down,(needs rebuilt now), great 3 pt. on them. The lack of live pto was not a problem for me on the tiller but would be a BIG problem on a mower!
I just bought a 2444 industrial and that is one sweet tractor. hi-lo trans, 2 stage live pto, diffy lock, 1 remote, ps, 3pt. etc.
I also have 2 of the 504's -- again lpto on them, ps, plus 5 speed and some of them had the ta in them, (mine dont) They work great on tiller or mower.
I have a 340 too Right now he is on the spreader That is another great model I had it on the tiller last year and the C-80 bush hog. Lpto in them too, again no ta in mine but 5 speeds so that helped plus I went to 24's on the back slowing things down just a tad.
574 would be another good model and ya I got 2 of them too! lol! Neither run at present time.
I have no idea about 424 but have heard bad stories about them. no parts from what I hear. Cant verify that but you can check. I would go 404 if it were me. even without lpto! lol!

[Super A]

404 was great! I got one. It has power steering and dual hyd. valve bank on it. did have a loader on it when I got it but since I despise loaders on tractors, --- it came off and was sent to the junkyard.
Only having 4 gears it struggled on the KK72" tiller but I got along with it for many years. Motor went down,(needs rebuilt now), great 3 pt. on them. The lack of live pto was not a problem for me on the tiller but would be a BIG problem on a mower!
I just bought a 2444 industrial and that is one sweet tractor. hi-lo trans, 2 stage live pto, diffy lock, 1 remote, ps, 3pt. etc.
I also have 2 of the 504's -- again lpto on them, ps, plus 5 speed and some of them had the ta in them, (mine dont) They work great on tiller or mower.
I have a 340 too Right now he is on the spreader That is another great model I had it on the tiller last year and the C-80 bush hog. Lpto in them too, again no ta in mine but 5 speeds so that helped plus I went to 24's on the back slowing things down just a tad.
574 would be another good model and ya I got 2 of them too! lol! Neither run at present time.
I have no idea about 424 but have heard bad stories about them. no parts from what I hear. Cant verify that but you can check. I would go 404 if it were me. even without lpto! lol!

I had no idea you could get a 404 with power steering until I got mine and got to doing research. I'd love to have it on mine.

About 6 months after I got my 404 (bought it from a fellow IH Collector about an hour's drive from here) I came across the sweetest original 404 I've ever seen on TractorHouse. It was in Indiana and was priced about 2x what I paid for mine, but I think it had every single option on it that you could get, including the hi-lo transmission and the cigarette lighter! Sadly it sold quickly.....

As to parts on the 424, to my knowledge the big issue can be hydraulic parts. Basic wearing parts are not an issue--essentially same as a A--140. Your 2444 is a 424/2424 with updated sheet metal.

Al

[v w]

I have an International 404. I've also heard of a Farmall 404 and writers are not clear which they are writing about. I do have power steering and with a loader it sure is nice. I've never used the PTO but it appears to have a two stage clutch so that depressing the clutch partway stops forward motion and depressing it all the way stops forward motion and the PTO. To shift gears the clutch must be depressed completly. Vern

[SONNY]

My 404 dont have 2 stage in it , -- 2444 does. and the 2444 is NOT the 424 family its the 444 family.

[Super A]

My 404 dont have 2 stage in it , -- 2444 does. and the 2444 is NOT the 424 family its the 444 family.

Sonny, the 444/2444 is almost identical to the 424/2424. The rear end/transmission/hydraulic unit is identical. 444 used a size bigger displacement gas engine and had different fenders/instrument panel.

The 444 for the non-US market was a good bit different but I believe the transmission/rear end/hydraulics were still the same between the US market 424/444.



Al

[SONNY]

so all of the parts fit either one??? --- Not what I was told, but they were probably wrong! lol! Anyway hope I wont need parts for mine. Its on waterway mowing duty at the farm for this year with the Woods C-80 3-pt mower on it. Does o.k. so far. Not as fast as my 315 behind the neighbors 656 diesel but at least its a gas motor!

[Super A]

so all of the parts fit either one??? --- Not what I was told, but they were probably wrong! lol! Anyway hope I wont need parts for mine. Its on waterway mowing duty at the farm for this year with the Woods C-80 3-pt mower on it. Does o.k. so far. Not as fast as my 315 behind the neighbors 656 diesel but at least its a gas motor!

From the flywheel back they are the same or darn close to it. Park a 424 beside a 444 and is obvious.

Al

[gitractorman]

So, drove down to Ohio on Friday with the trailer and cash for the 424. Came home with an empty trailer.
Tractor started and ran good. Clutch was way out of adjustment and through the conversation the “new clutch” was installed 20 years ago when he bought the tractor. NO brakes, but “they just need an adjustment.” Hydraulics were good but every line, fitting, etc. had a drip of oil from it. Main positive wire to the starter looked like old yellow extension cord, and nothing electrical worked on the tractor, and the rest of the wiring either looked original or cobbled together He’s had it listed for 3 months and wouldn’t budge on the price, so I walked away. I’m sure I wasn’t the first. He also had a Super A that ran good but looked worse, and a 330 with a loader that I didn’t even want to see after the first two.

Thanks again to everyone’s input though. As usual, it was all very helpful.

Bill

[Jim Becker]

A good reminder when considering the nuances of various similar size/age models, condition is still the biggest factor! Time to take a good look at the 404?