Lo Boy 154 Timing marks? Did I make a King Sized Mess?

[sideburnz]

Hello everybody, I'm new to old tractors with some experience working on more modern motorcycle engines. I previously worked as a high end bicycle mechanic so I have a good amount of small part and hand tool savvy.

My wife and I just moved to a place with some land in NJ, and it came with a Lo Boy 154. Had been running well in the month we've been here, though slow to start when its cold. However, it gave up on starting all together just in time for our snow storm yesterday. Unfortunately the 154 was my plan for clearing snow from our 1/4 mile driveway. Our 24" snowblower got a real serious workout yesterday.

Here's the short story:
Was getting a very intermittant spark at the plugs. The plugs looked terrible when I took them out to check the spark so I replaced them. Didn't seem to make much difference. The points were about a mile apart when I checked them, remedied that without any noticeable change in the spark.

Now here's where I think I might have started making myself a real mess:

I hit the points and rotor button contacts with a little fine sandpaper since they were looking pretty scorched. At this point I button things back up and there isn't ANY spark anymore. So I figure maybe I buggered things up when I put them back together. I decide I will make sure the rotor contact is aimed at the #1 plug wire contact when #1 is at TDC. I have the #1 plug out, and I'm turning the engine by hand. By looking at an angle I can see the top of piston #1 top out in the cylinder. However, the timing mark on the fan pulley is now at the top, about 90 degrees from the pointer on the engine. This has me all kinds of lost. I make a wild guess that at some point someone had that off and put it back on incorrectly.

I figure I will still need to sort out something in the ignition regardless of what is going on with this TCD discrepancy, as I think I should still be getting spark regardless of how whacked the timing is when the engine cranks. It will just be coming at the wrong time.

So I decide I will see if the points spark when I crank the engine. I think I'm working backwards. Now heres where I think I've got a real mess going: When I crank the engine the spindle in the distributor doesn't turn.

I've already got a set of points, rotor, cap and coil on the way. Based on the way the plugs looked I'm guessing these are all past their expected service life regardless of whether or not they are currently functional.


Thanks for reading this far. I'm at a total loss here. Don't know what to think of the seemingly misaligned timing mark, or the non spinning distributor spindle. Any and all help greatly appreciated.

[Mike H]

''When I crank the engine the spindle in the distributor doesn't turn.''

there is your first clue.

if it aint turning there is no timing

also order the manuals for the 154 there a great help

Mike

welcome to the fourm

[ihcc104]

Time to pull the distributor and see whats going on, sounds like there is an issue with the gear at the end of the shaft... but hard to tell w/o looking. You should, as previously mentioned, get a manual

[Bill Hudson]

... You should, as previously mentioned, get a manual

Available as a free download at the upper left of this page under quick links click on PDF Manuals and then noodle around to find the one(s) you need/want.

Bill

[outdoors4evr]

As for the timing mark, your #1 cylinder may have been at the top, but this probably was not the compression stroke.
First, make sure the cylinder is producing compression by putting your thumb over the spark plug hole as you rotate the crank raising the piston. Once on the compression stroke, then find top dead center.
The timing mark may be off due to slop on the pulley. The keyway does wear the pulley and may cause the mark to be off.

[sideburnz]

Thanks everybody.

I did find a pdf manual online.

I think I've got the TDC confusion sorted out. I at first was not able to feel any pressure on my finger in the #1 spark plug hole at any time when I rotated the engine. On a whim I checked the valve adjustment, and it was way off. I don't think the valves were fully closing ever in #1. Would that cylinder even run if this were the case? Anyhow, adjusted the valves and now I am confident I can find TDC, and can feel pressure through the hole.

I pulled the distributor off, and cant find anything obvious wrong with either the gear inside the engine, or on the spindle. However, the spindle will turn when I move the engine by hand, but not with the starter/generator. I'm sure that's a hint for someone, but I don't know how to interpret it.

[Mike H]

only thing that comes to mind is belt tension,,, is it tight enuf on the starter generator

other wise you have a serious gremlin in that C 60 engine

Mike

[sideburnz]

only thing that comes to mind is belt tension,,, is it tight enuf on the starter generator

other wise you have a serious gremlin in that C 60 engine

Mike

Well, I can see the fan turning when the distributor isn't, so I guess that puts me one step closer to gremlin.

[ihcc104]

Maybe the keyway is ruined on the pulley on the front of the engine... it wouldn't spin the crank if using the starter because the pulley would spin freely on the crank but with a socket on the end of it, it would turn the crank... I would check the pulley's keyway

[outdoors4evr]

It's all the same belt on the 154. Starter can turn the fan easily, but the belt is probably slipping on the crank pulley. Make sure the belt is TIGHT.

[Eugene]

How are you turning the engine over by hand, using the fan or the belt?

Check the condition of the belt and belt tension.

There are 2 each TDC for the #1 piston. Compression stroke and exhaust stroke.

Locate the TDC timing mark on the pulley, 2nd mark to pass the pointer. Line the TDC mark up with the pointer. Check the distributor rotor. The rotor will be pointing at or near the #1 spark plug tower or the #4 spark plug tower on the distributor cap.

[Mike H]

^^^ what Cory said^^^
that is the only thing that makes sense

try your starter and see if the shafts coming out of the back of the engine are turning,,remove the inspection cover under the shifter to expose them

mike

[sideburnz]

^^^ what Cory said^^^
that is the only thing that makes sense

try your starter and see if the shafts coming out of the back of the engine are turning,,remove the inspection cover under the shifter to expose them

mike

Between you and Corey we have a winner, pulley on crank is spinning, shaft coming out the back side is not.

I guess they keyway mustve been hanging on by its nails, and the cold, cold thick oil did it in. I guess I'll read up on getting that pulley off.

Thanks again everyone, I've gone from hopeless to encouraged.

Matt

[ihcc104]

Hopefully, it is only the key or the pulley... and not the crank... that would be a project

[Larry B]

Take the bolt out of the engine crank pulley and mark the crankshaft and pulley with a marker and then crank the engine with the starter and see if the marks move in relation to each other. Hard to believe the pulley is slipping on the crank. Those are usually a real pain to pull. If the marks don't move in relation to each other pulley is not slipping. Either crank is broke or engine is not turning. If marks move in relation to each other then the pull3y is slipping on the crank.