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Anti Virus

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Rudi
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Postby Rudi » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:26 am

I guess I should clarify a tad..

I am not against all freebie stuff. I think there is a lot of wonderful programs out there that work wonders. I was strictly speaking about a primary protection suite. We use Microsoft's Anti-Spyware Beta (not too shabby), LavaSoft's Ad-aware Personal SE with Addons, (excellent, top notch), Spy-Bot (Safer Networking - also top notch) as part of our protection suites. I am always on the lookout for other programs that address these security concerns and if I find one that works well, I use it.

Speaking of which, I was going to link to Microsoft's Anti-Spyware Beta, when it redirected me to this new program Windows Defender Beta 2. Microsoft Windows AntiSpyware (Beta):
Windows Defender (Beta 2) is the final name for Microsoft’s antispyware solution. Current Windows AntiSpyware (Beta 1) customers will be notified automatically to upgrade.

I am going to download and try it.

One thing with Microsoft, you usually have to validate your OS.. so if there is any doubt... you will know quick enough.....

Oh, I also support these developers. It may be free, but it does cost someone something. So supporting them makes good sense. And it is voluntary, not mandatory.... especially stuff like Spy-Bot... well worth a few bucks via PayPal.

I guess my big bugaboo about freebie AV software arises from the fact that many of the computers I have to repair and victims of poor maintenance. The owners simple do not bother to do the maintenance, and in cases such as this, there is no way any software suite is going to perform up to snuff. If you do not do the updates for definitions, don't do the scans or any of the other stuff, well you end up with major problems.

And, the number of people who are in this rut is immense.

I have a buddy, I don't know how many times I have fixed his computer.. but he is soooo cheap it is incredible. He will not pay for a decent ISP, so he uses freebie hosts... he won't pay for any software at all except the OS and only because it is mandatory and usually comes with a system, he only uses freebie firewalls and AV suites, BUT.. the downside to all this is he hasn't got a clue how to manage them.

So, when one misses.. he installs another suite... usually without unloading the other. Now that causes all kinds of conflicts and corrupts just about everything.

Other thing that has to be kept in mind. A lot of these download sites, well they are some of the biggest dangers out there. Most of the data miners and keystroke bots come from places such as these. When you run AdAware.. check the results. The higher the TAC, the more dangerous it is... CNet, ZDNet and others like it, although those sites themselves may be somewhat safer, they link to mirrors which are not...

Chad:

As noted in a previous post, I used to insist that Norton be on every computer I built. However, because of the resource allocations with Symantec programs now and the fact that they have yet to included RAM Reallocators in the subsets, Norton tends to slow down computers to the point that the only fix is to double or triple onboard RAM. Or.... remove the software. I chose to remove it, as I found better software that allows me to more ably manage my network...

It all becomes a matter of choice and personal preference. I don't own stock in any company, so there is no conflict. And of course, all of this is just my personal opinion, whatever that is worth..

Billy:

If you computer is connecting with another computer that you have not allowed, McAfee and other Anti-Virus software will not prevent that. That is called Malware, Spy-ware, Bots, Data-Miners etc. They are little programs that usually piggyback onto another program or are buried in another program that you download. Once these become active, then they exploit the inherant backdoors in the code that always exist, and allow another user to manipulate or copy your data, or even just use your computer to make phone calls and stuff... This is where Spy-bot, AdAware, Microsoft all play a part. Anti-Hacker programs are even better suited for this. AV programs are not designed to battle this type of threat.

Oh, another thing... most AV suites do not support on-line webmail such as Hotmail, GMail, Yahoo etc..... at least not to my knowledge. They are designed to work well with a primary mail account in a client on your computer such as Outlook or Outlook Express, Netscape, Thunderbird or Eudora and similar software. I have never been able to get any of them to actually scan these emails prior to downloading to my computer. Spamfighter and other Anti-Spaming programs also are for your primary email accounts with your ISP as well...

Larry:

Kaspersky Anti-Hacker as well as Spy-Bot can address those issues. Some AV programs can as well, but it is not their primary function. White Lists, Black Lists can be helpful, the not all work as well as intended.

The Military and NASA use a philosophy called Multiple Redundancy. I like that philosophy. Yes, it may use a bit more resources, but if it adds to the integrity of a system, then it is well worth it. Broadband users are especially vulnerable to hacking etc., as their computers are usually connected 24/7 and in my case -- most of my computers run 24/7/365.. so I definitely am an advocate of Multiple Redundancy.

And no, I am not all that literate, I just learned by getting burned... and to answer your question, yes there are sites to go to learn about this stuff.

If you click on the links above, especially the Lava Soft one, there is a lot of info there. Check out the Windows Messenger utility and why it is imperative that this particular subroutine does not run...... I will try to get additional url's of a few good sites and post em...
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Postby Jim Hudson » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:03 pm

Prague – 15th February 2006: For immediate release: ALWIL Software is proud to announce that it has won the prestigious SC Readers Choice Awards for best Antivirus (avast!) for the USA section of the award event.

ALWIL Software’s avast! product was up against nominated industry leaders in the category, including: McAfee Inc. - McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.0i; Symantec Corporation - Symantec AntiVirus Corporate Edition 10.0 and Aladdin Knowledge Systems - Aladdin eSafe.

http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_wins_sc_award.html
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Postby Patbretagne » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:18 am

Thanks for such an informed thread, I asked the question because Mr Norton has increased his charges fairly heavily recently, now asking 10€ extra to be able to download the programme all year round just in case it gets wiped or the computer crashes.
I have looked around at criticisms of all sorts of antivirus and in the end decided on Kaspersky personal version 5 which is now loaded and doesn't seem to slow the engine up as muc as Norton, the only thing that is micro-tad-seconds slower is the startup of a programme, word, excel, thunderbirs etc, but so what.
An interesting feature I found last night:- I had one of those 'paypal messages saying the account is due to be updated, just click here' things that I normally send to spoof@ebay and mr Kaspersky told me that the message I was about to send was sure to contain a worm! Never had that with Norton, I am very happy. How though did it not note that when the email came in to me???
Nowthen young Rudi, are you in a position to help here, You talk of Anti Hacker and Spybot, what do they actually do and should all of us Cubbers have one (or the both?)
Next question, Firewall? don't we have a firewall installed in the machine with windows (XP) where are the advantages in buying a new one?
Your help and comments would be greatly appreciated especially now that as Rudi says, on ADSL broadband the computer is connected to the line 24/24 and therefore very open to attack from outside.
Pat

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Postby W6NZ » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:40 pm

Next question, Firewall? don't we have a firewall installed in the machine with windows (XP) where are the advantages in buying a new one?

Yes there is a firewall in XP but it doesn't protect your computer as well as one would expect. I was advised to get a mini firewall as well, and all is well.

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Postby W6NZ » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:51 pm

While the subject is on protecting our computers, it is also necessary to do your 'housekeeping', ie; Disk clean up, cleaning up temporary internet files, also the recycle bin, and Computer Management, disk defragmenter, at least on a monthly basis.
This will help speed up your computer while also making more memory available.

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Postby Patbretagne » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:45 am

W6NZ wrote:
Next question, Firewall? don't we have a firewall installed in the machine with windows (XP) where are the advantages in buying a new one?

Yes there is a firewall in XP but it doesn't protect your computer as well as one would expect. I was advised to get a mini firewall as well, and all is well.

Hi W6, Thanks for your reply, what did you get as a mini-firewall?
Pat

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Postby W6NZ » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:48 pm

Hi Pat, go to this website, it can be trusted.
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_d ... 051,00.asp

P.S. I use Tiny Personal firewall

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Postby W6NZ » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:59 pm

Advice from Bleeping computer.com.;

One should never run two firewalls simultaneously, since they will conflict and could cause major problems for your operating system. Since the Windows firewall is only one way (only incoming and not outgoing packets are examined), I would suggest you disable it and use Tiny. Two very good free firewalls are Zone/Alarm and Sygate Personal Firewall (I use the latter).

I have never had any problems using both, but perhaps any update of the Tiny Personal Firewall programme may cause problems, I intend updating so will have to check this out.
One would expect,seeing that Microsoft praise their firewall, that it would cover everything, but I"m afraid not.
Maybe it would be a good idea for me to disable XP firewall, I'll have to check further,
Hope this isn't too confusing for you.

Another trusted site.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download1056.html

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Rudi
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Postby Rudi » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:44 pm

Pat:

Nowthen young Rudi, are you in a position to help here, You talk of Anti Hacker and Spybot, what do they actually do and should all of us Cubbers have one (or the both?)
Next question, Firewall? don't we have a firewall installed in the machine with windows (XP) where are the advantages in buying a new one?
Your help and comments would be greatly appreciated especially now that as Rudi says, on ADSL broadband the computer is connected to the line 24/24 and therefore very open to attack from outside.


Hmm, thanks for the compliment. I haven't been called young for quite some time.... I appreciate... :roll: :lol:

As you can tell, I has sort of been away for a few days, so sorry for the delay in answering... but this is gonna be a goodie I think...

Kaspersky Anti-Hacker, is probably one of the best utilities that I have ever run across. It is a fully functional, user friendly interface that actually allows you the everyday consumer to control just what goes IN and OUT of YOUR computer.

Unlike other programs where you actually need to know what the exe or executable is, with Anti-Hacker, you just need to remember what program you are installing or going to modify..... quite simple really.

An absolute must. It actually does work in denying access to hackers trying to gain access to your system. No, it is not a 128bit multiple layer encrypted secure system, but then again your computer is not a Pentagon backbone... so... all the bells and whistles are not needed.

What is needed is a program that will deny access to phishing -- fishing -- or however you wish to spell it. This is random hack attacks via bots usually that look for vulnerable systems which have well know back doors such as Windows - any platform, Macs - any version and most prgrams such as Norton Internet Security or McAfee or any other similar product...

Layered code -- multiple backdoors -- on many layers...

Pat, Kaspersky is a very intuitive program and it is superior to Norton or comparible. I see stuff like what you describe on a daily basis on a lot of computers that I install this stuff on. It is a good program.

Kaspersky's Firewall is also - Anti-Hacker. That is what a firewall does. Windows XP's firewall is a cute little program that basically is smart enough to tell you: "Yo buddy - I have just been hacked.... you computer is toast!". Aside from that it is essentially useless... but does provide a modicum of safety in that it will remind you to ensure that your firewall is active. But you do need a firewall. Turning it off, well that is about a sane as shooting yourself in the foot just to see if it will hurt... ahhh duhhh!

However, a firewall is a must. For those who do not have the resources to afford a router, or the literacy to setup a Linux based firewall/router on an old computer, then these other programs are quite valuable. Hey, they are good enough that I use them in conjunction with my Smoothwall firewall, this is a Linux based program that is loaded on an old 233mhz computer which is between my hub and my internet modem. This is so secure, that it is virtually inpenetrable.

Ah you say, how can this be so... well if your IP is 192.168.0.1 which is an internal IP ... how can anybody crack it? You have to have a static IP which is kinda dumb... and is something pretty much all ISP's have moved away from in favour of Dynamic IP addresses which help to curb hackers by denying stable IP's to scan, log, and then attack.

One should never run two firewalls simultaneously, since they will conflict and could cause major problems for your operating system. Since the Windows firewall is only one way (only incoming and not outgoing packets are examined), I would suggest you disable it and use Tiny. Two very good free firewalls are Zone/Alarm and Sygate Personal Firewall (I use the latter).


David:

Whoever wrote this, is in serious need of either an attitude adjustment or a trip back to IT school....

I use multiple firewalls all the time, and I have yet to get hacked, nor have I experienced ANY conflicts.

Zone Alarm, I don't bother with and Sygate -- never heard of it... and if this guy is using Sygate.. I definitely will not... just cause....

and David, don't go disabling your XP firewall.. it ain't much, but it is another gateway that has to be opened.. and if it is behind a much more robust firewall, then it will become more robust in that it becomes harder to compromise... don't make it easy for anybody..

Sooo much for Firewalls...

Now:

Spy-Bot is a neat little program that actually looks for these bots, and other spy, mal, ad ware programs that usually come bundled with freebie junk off of many different download sites/mirrors where the latest, hotest downloads are available, such as ZDNet yadayadayada... I tend to avoid these religiously.

Microsoft Anti-Spyware Beta which is soon to be released as Windows Defender is actually a good little program in that it actually works. Not that it is the be-all end-all to your needs, but when used in complement with other like programs such as Lavasoft's AdAware Personal SE and Spy-Bot, the suite (all 3 combined programs) when used on a regular basis to sweep your system, actuall get 99.99% of the crud you can pick up.... but ya gotta run em and ya gotta update em....

Try em, you will like em..

Sorry for the extended blab, but hey, this is one of my favourite soapboxes... y'all have no idea how many times I have to repeat this EVERY week.... I mean really... it has become a mantra almost..
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Postby Patbretagne » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:12 am

Thanks Rudi, sorry to hear you have been running around a lot recently, but on the otherhand it proves your health is coming back to normal, and that's GOOD.
Pat

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Postby Patbretagne » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:42 am

Justto clarify, having re-read your post.
Anti Hacker, Kas persky, for example is in itself a Firewall? so really to buy an antihacker I am buying a firewall????? :?:
Look forward to your reply,
Pat

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Postby W6NZ » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:33 am

Rudi, thanks for that. I thought the guy's comment was strange (don't run 2 firewalls at once) as I have been running them both for quite some time with no problems at all, but thought who am I to question a so called expert. :roll:
Any way I'm keeping both firewalls, as you say XP isn't much but it is some protection.

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Postby Paul_NJ » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:11 am

I've used Norton (Symantec) Antivirus in the past, but came to hate it, and avoid it like the plague now. It embeds itself deep into your operating system and affects operation and efficiency. These days I use, and am very happy with AVG antivirus. I also use AdAware, Spybot, and Spyware Blaster. They all happen to be free, but I don't use them because they are. The guy who built my current computer recommended them, and I've been, knock-on-wood, very happy with how well they work.
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Rudi
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Postby Rudi » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:33 am

Pat:

System Mechanic 6 Professional is a COMPLETE SUITE.

It contains Kaspersky's Anti-Virus and Kaspersky's Anti-Hacker. If you have that program, then you do not need another Anti-Hacker or firewall. It will do the job all by itself.

The links have changed over the last little bit, and they are now offering different packaging and packaging options, but the best deal is SM6Pro.

I use Smoothwall Express as my primary physical firewall (built an old 233mhz and loaded this program which is Linux based) which is between my modem and my hub. Essentially, this old computer with Smoothie on it plus my hub acts as what most people would associate the term router with.

Linksys offers a number of products... I just happen to own a couple of their units -- namely a Wireless Access Point for my wireless side of the network.. for example:

BEFSR81 is essentially just a hub and does not act as a firewall, it is just a router which is a fancy name for a hub.

Hope I am not confusing the issue...

BEFSX41 is not only a router, but is a Firewall as well. This would be a good solid option for those who wish a good firewall between their cable modem and their computer.

There are many others... D-Link, Bay Networks offers good solid equipment as well. I happen to like Linksys cause it is essentiall a Cisco product and next to Nortel, Cisco is the system hardware of choice for many pros...

Paul:

Glad to hear that you are using a combo suite.. good going. However, AVG is not a great program, it also has many well known back doors. However, that being said, much of the AVG problem is generated with their freebie software. The Big Liscenced packages may be slightly better, but to my mind and my experience with it, I would just as soon let it go.

But -- as with many things in life such as do you want a Chevy, a Ford or a Chrysler -- it all comes down to personal choice.

I used to be a GM man -- (link to Norton), but their quality is not Job #! and with Ford.. well (AVG and McAfee)... not good enough to come up to Job#1... and Chrysler (Daimler-Benz = Mercedes = my favourite vehicle) and can be compared to (SM6Pro)... I have become a Chrysler nut...

All boils down to choice.

The other main factor is!

Run the software daily if possible, at a minimum weekly. Update your definitions ( I do it hourly.. and can reasonably expect a new set every 3 hours), and run your Malware software regularily as well. Mine is all set to run at night when I am in Z-land..

David:

Keep on keepin on. The only way to keep your data safe and secure is to be Threat Concsious :!:
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