Three cheers for Australia

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Not too much different. We also fought for freedom of religion. If we hadn't we would all be Anglican or Episcopalian to y'all Stateside... Canada is chock full of different faiths... or whatever ya wanna call it. Remember the part about my Mom's family. The French in me fought the Brits and lost on the Plains of Abraham. However, they won in more ways than they lost......

Well, if you silly Cannuks had accepted Ben Franklin's urgings to join the Continental Congress, you could have had done with it a century sooner, but instead, you whooped our butts in the war of 1812. And to think, Jefferson said "Canada will be ours for the marching......" And the hideous secret is, "manifest destiny" is still on a back burner..... We're just waiting for you to come to your senses..........

[Rudi]

Tom:

FINALLY

you wrote:

Well, if you silly Cannuks had accepted Ben Franklin's urgings to join the Continental Congress, you could have had done with it a century sooner, but instead, you whooped our butts in the war of 1812. And to think, Jefferson said "Canada will be ours for the marching......" And the hideous secret is, "manifest destiny" is still on a back burner..... We're just waiting for you to come to your senses..........

Did you know that the only country ever to whoop the US's butt is us, AND we succeeded in doing what no one else could... WE MADE you build a brand new White House

I like history.... I really do...

It defines who we were, who we are and who we will be.... imagine all that in one little word.

Manifest Destiny is a doctrine that we as a people could never get our heads around. It basically seems to us, that we would have been swapping one master (a monarchy) for another master... (in this case a Republic). We already had experience with that when we was a possession of La Belle Pays -- France..... thanks, but no thanks..

Yes we still have the Monarchy, but it is by choice and the Queen is our titular head of state and not the actual head of state. Our Prime Minister wears that particular headdress... I do believe though that the Queen and the Commonwealth are of benefit and keep all of the Dominions together and united in a common belief.. that is a good thing.

Manifest Destiny has been around for a long time and it has played a large part in how the US looks at Canada. But, the proponents and believers of Manifest Destiny would do every one a huge favour if they just dropped it period. It is a dead issue and will be forever I hope.

Don't get me wrong... I like my cousins -- I just don't want to live in their house... and that includes my immediate cousins and of course across the pond as well.. like em a lot.. but I likes home much better...

Thanks for my morning ray of sunshine... I appreciate that.... a lot...

Oh, and the one good thing that has come out of all of that -- remember we have the longest undefended border in the world... and that border is based on mutual friendship and respect. No one else in the whole world can say that except the US and Canada....

What a wonderful example to the rest of humanity. Guns and bombs are not needed when we have friendship and respect.

And ferget what the politicians say.... most of em are just blowin smoke...

[cowboy]

Amen Rudi

I like seeing my friends to the north Knowing they have a good working system helps keep us on our toes and hopfull to bigheaded. I think this country is big enough. With so many divided instrests it makes it quite hard to govern. I don't know what the heck we are thinking trying to straiten out other countries when our own system has so many holes in it. Did you know there is a snowmobile trail that goes across the St Maries river that you cross the ice in winter go to phone booth call pay for your trail permit on a creadit card get you reg. # and keep on riding

Billy

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

For those of you who have no idea what Rudi and I are rambling about:

The war of 1812, was basically an attempt by the US to forcibly annex Canada. There were other issues we had with Britain, such as their "hijacking" of US sailors to serve aboard British Ships, but, for the most part, it was to annex what we called "British North America" or Canada.

Forces from Britain tried to make inroads into Baltimore, Washington (which they successfully sacked and burned), and New Orleans, but we were more or less able to ultimately defend these positions well enough.

Our Canadian Campaigns, however, were a disaster. A small number of British Regulars, large numbers of Canadian Militia, and Some Native American Forces repeatedly repelled our advances, and, although at one time, we did manage to take and burn York (Toronto), we soon lost the position, and were repelled back to Detroit. We also lost territory in Maine and Upstate NY. We managed to control the great lakes at first, until the Canadians managed to build a 100 gun, 1000 crew "Ship of the Line" which, although never fought a battle, essentially ended the US domination of the Great Lakes.

Ultimately, we neither gained nor lost substantial territory in the war, but merely accumulated some $3.2 million in debt.

From a perspective of treaties, we made some important gains with Britain as far as policy towards US shipping, Canadians gained a definition of themselves as "British North Americans" instead of Colonists. Spain ceded Florida to us, mostly out of confusion. Andrew Jackson became a war hero, poised to become president, for fending off 8,000 British regulars in New Orleans from a mud fort with only 400 Kentuckians, Creoles, and "Free Men of Colour".

While this war is most significant for all of us in North America, it is considered a footnote to the Napoleonic wars to the British.

The only people to take US-occupied land by force, and have it returned by treaty, not by battle, were indeed, the people of "upper canada." -- hence the "butt-whooping" I referred to earlier.

War of 1812 -- fascinating stuff, kids....

[George Willer]

In our part of the country we think the naval battles came out a little differently. We have just a few miles away a magnificent monument to Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry... the young man who broke the British and Canadian hold on the Great Lakes in a stunning victory that led to the ending of the war of 1812. He was in his 20's at the time.

Another young man, Col. George Croghan, 21, who successfully defended Fort Stephenson with a handful of men and one careful shot from his single cannon, and drove off thousands planning to storm the fort. How he did it is an amazing story of cunning and guts!

It wasn't the politicians at all that saved both countries... it was the contributions of these two and many other fine young men.

BTW, the original White House is still there, but the white paint covering the blackened stones is where it got its' name.

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Of course, George, you are correct.

I was trying for brevity, and glossed over a lot of the specifics.

There were a lot of heroes, and regrettably, cowards, on both sides.

I remember a story of an American officer, so fearful of being scalped, that he retreated his position deep into US territory, simply due to a rumour, false at that, that indians were on their way, skillfully circulated by the Canadians.

One other good thing that came out of the war of 1812. The need for a professional officer's corps was widely noted, and West Point, before that, the home to the Army Corps of Engineers, was established as the US Army Officer's Academy, to serve that purpose.

Commodore Perry's Naval battles on Lake Erie are Legendary, you are correct. Unfortunately, we did not fare so well on Lake Champlain and Lake Ontario.

All in all, though, our small Navy was very effective, even against the much larger British ships, with our 40 gun "super-frigates" frequently taking on British 100 gun "ships of the line" in one-on-one battles, whenever possible. In the Atlantic Battles, we captured or sank an embarrasing number of British Ships, until ultimately, our ports were completely blockaded. This was as much to keep us from supplying Napoleon with food as it was to suppress our Navy, BTW.

As a side note, some of our merchant ships which chose to not return home during the blockade years flew the French flag, and supplied Napoleon with food from Africa and Spain, running the British blockade of Europe, just for spite.

[Lurker Carl]

Another credit to the War of 1812:

While arranging a prisoner exchange with British naval forces, Francis Scott Key was briefly held captive as the British navy began bombarding the fort charged with defending Baltimore Harbor. After over 24 hours of continuous bombing, Fort McHenry withstood the attack and the Brits withdrew. Upon seeing the American flag still flying at the fort, Key wrote a poem in response to the successful defense of Baltimore. Thus the words to our national anthem were penned.

[Rudi]

Guys:

I like history.... I really do...

It defines who we were, who we are and who we will be.... imagine all that in one little word.

Isn't history wonderful

As long as we remember that there are many sides to any story... as long as the facts are correct... then history lives..