Wheres "Patbretagne "

[johnbron]

Pat hasn`t posted in nearly a month. Anybody heard from him

Just wondering if he is doing okay.

[Hengy]

That is SOOO odd... I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing this afternoon... I didn't know how long it has been, but was wondering just the same...

Hope all is well!!!

Mike in La Crosse, WI

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Friends,

Our friend Pat is alive and well.

And I'm sure that he is still reading some of the posts here from time to time.

Sometimes, we as a group, and I do include myself, can offer some very narrow-minded viewpoints. While this has offended me on more than one occaision, I also realize that sometimes I am also the offending individual.

Pat has made the decision to "lie low" for a while....something that I have done from time to time, but not for as long a period of time.

I pray that we have not run him off for good, like we did W6NZ.

As I said, I am perhaps more guilty than most of you, but we are not a terribly considerate group, when you get right down to it, and we do not offer much in the way of tolerance for others' points of view.

[johnbron]

Thanks for the explaination. _ I have no clue as to what offended him but I do respect his choice of action for whatever he feels is right.

[Harold R]

Nah, Pat's just off watching the World Cup!! I think most of Europe shuts down during game time.

Seriously, If you participate in an open forum...you best be prepared to hear,(or read) opinions quite different than yours. I participate in a couple of other venues where the points and counter points are good. Occassionally, you'll get a sniper in there that fires off some beligerant rant.....and could easy chase folks off. Sometimes it happens. But you have to see it for what it's worth.......just one man's opinion. I'm not sure what chased off W6NZ....other than he offered some info on a tractor meet in NZ, during a time when there wasn't many folks logging on due to travelling to a couple shows.....and nobody showed much interest in the outcome. In my opinion......hardly enough to stop being a participant. I enjoyed Pat's postings and story telling....he was quite good at it. He has a nice touch in restorations too. I particularly enjoyed the "other" tractors he found.
I enjoy the Way Off Topic threads as it is a nice relief from tractor talk. We sort of get an insight on other folks thoughts and beliefs about different subjects. I don't agree with all I've read....some stuff is above my paygrade...other stuff I read and mentally "round file" it. Either it didn't make sense, or I know facts that would prove otherwise. Regardless, I take it as one man's opinion....and treat it as such, never forgetting the fact that we're all here PRIMARILY....because we enjoy the cub tractor. SO....as we say on some of the other forums............

SHIELDS UP..........FLAME AWAY!!!!

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Well,

I don't think anyone who leaves our company considers it "just one issue".....

As I said, I am probably one of the worst offenders, but it is the narrow-minded views that we, as US Citizens frequently take about issues that affect the whole world, that upset our overseas friends so badly. Just because it makes sense to us here, doesn't mean it's right.

The indifference we showed to W6NZ over the New Zealand Farmall event that he posted about was an oversight on many of our parts, because he posted it in a strange place -- announcements I think -- which I hardly ever read, and I suspect most of us do not, unless we are looking for something. This however was only the straw breaking the Camel's back, however. When he posted something about whales, there were actually people who answered in favour of whales becoming extinct!!!!!!!!!

Even if God Forbid, you actually feel that way, where is your sensitivity to the fact that the rest of the world takes the environment Very Seriously People???????

In general, and I am just as guilty as anyone, and maybe moreso in some cases, we show a closed-minded attitude and lack of sensitivity towards non-US nationals here. Our Canadian bretheren are used to it, and overlook it, I suppose. The rest of the world is not that forgiving. We need to try and do a little better when an overseas member joins, in my humble, worthless opinion.

[Harold R]

People in this country are entitled to their opinions. When you read and participate in a public forum......you best be prepared to read something that you might not agree with. Something that doesn't set well. You ALSO have the option to fire back. If you chose not to, if you pack up your marbles and go home....then that is of your own doing.
If there are personal attacks....foul language, etc., then the moderators would step in and put the kabosh on it. I think that happened not too long ago on the cub cadet forum.
I won't get into a 20 post debate over this because, in my opinion, it's not worth 20, 10...or even 5 post. I think debate is good. At times it gets spirited........but it shouldn't get apologetic. Reading or participation is not mandantory.

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions. I speak mine more frequently than most.

My point is merely that perhaps we should be more sensitive and compassionate in some cases, especially when we are putting forth a particularly narrow-minded point of view.

It is usually only 1% of what we say, and 99% of how we say it that offends people, in my experience.

When we force someone to conclude, "Hey, I don't need this aggravation!" we are not acting our very best, and have gone beyond the spirit of debate, even if unpleasant language and personal attacks have not been used. It is more than hearing something contrary to our own viewpoints. Somewhere in there, we have offended someone's sensibilities.

I'm not even saying we can do better. I'd just like to see us try -- again, myself included. Showing the world that we're not the closed-minded idiots they think we are will do no one any harm.

[John(videodoc)]

1. i was wondering where pat was myself, and do miss his input.

2. being an open forumn, and there being a wide variety of opinions, there will be tension from time to time. I have strayed away for a couple of days, only to "get over myself " and realize it wasnt that important.

3. yes, i speaking for myself, as an american, can be closed in the way i think, and i take responsibility for that, but i don't place that label on anyone else.

4. I think rudi's signature block says its best!!!!! And i belive it! Go and look.

[George Willer]

Pat Coxall is one of our good friends. We regard his friendship highly. Like all good friends he has other demands on his time. Please do not read any more into his absense than other demands on his time. When the coast is clear for him I'm sure he will bless us with another of his well written epistles.

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

George,

Not to contradict you, but about a month ago, I received an email from Pat, who was quite upset over a debate between, of all people, you and myself.

In that email, he told me he was going to "lie low" for a time, basically because he didn't need the aggravation.

At the time, I apologized, explained what I thought were both of our positions, and the reasons for the language we used. Essentially, I figured, oh well, one more thing to feel guilty about, but I think it is beyond that.

That is why I am taking this point of view.

Since Pat's not here to offer his position, and the question was raised, I felt I should answer. Perhaps that was not an appropriate thing to do, and I should have remained silent, so everyone could have maintained their delusions, whatever they were.

For better or worse, there we are.

--Tom

[ljw]

You know, I enjoy reading the posts on this forum, and reading Pat's and W6's as well as the others. I looked with interest the pics Pat took of his new tractor, etc., and the pic about W6's uncle driving that logging truck. But really, if a person gets angry at someone or something, what can anyone do about it? This may be the same kind of person who quits talking to his neighbor for a petty reason, etc., etc., etc. People have issues unbeknowst to us. Sometimes I feel that people have too much time on their hands and look for issues, real or imagined. Tom, on a tractor forum we don't really have to show the world anything. I get tired of hearing people say that Americans somehow need to feel guilty for our perceived injustices. If it wasn't for the bravery and skill of the American soldier, we would all be speaking German. I find it hard to believe people get offended on this forum. It is the most benevolent group on the internet. But I don't pay attention to any others. But to say that people are "run off" rather than he just decided not to participate on this forum any more is a microcosm of what is going on in this country. Why can't it just be stated that he took responsibility and chose not to interact, rather than someone else caused it to happen. I refuse to take responsibility for anyone leaving this forum. My 2 cents. Larry

[Rudi]

Hmmm...

I am sure that Pat being a Brit in France is pretty thick skinned.... it is akin to Canadians and Americans... That is all part of being Neighbours..

If one is to get upset about stuff said on a thread in a forum such as our Way, Way, Way Off Topic forum, then one needs to sit back and reload.... Good neighbours and especially good friends, pay no never-mind to opinions.. we all have one, and they are all worth about the same thing. Add a buck and a half to an opinion, and you get a cup of coffee at your local coffee shop.. and that is about it

I really don't believe Pat is offended.. but, it may very well be possible that he is taking a break. Sometimes that is needed, or even family responsibilities or even civic responsibilities may be at the fore. In any case, I am sure Pat will be back soon to offer us not only his unique Brit view on life in la belle pays, but also his take on Cubs and their effect on us... sure to be worth reading and to bring a chuckle to one and all..

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Larry, my friend.....

Perhaps you are right, and we shouldn't try and be our best selves to foreign members, because yes, we were the deciding factor that tilted the balance in both world wars.

Perhaps that does give us the right to be insensitive and uncompassionate towards foreigners.

No one is more proud of their nation's history than I. Losing my father during active service as an infant, before I ever knew him, to occupational-related causes in the US Army does mean a thing or two to me.

I am not asking anyone else to take direct responsibility for Pat or W6NZ leaving. I'll do that all on my own, thanks just the same.

I was asking folks to be a little more sensitive to the viewpoints of other cultures, and that's all, but it seems even that is too much to ask.

Oh well, it never hurts to ask.

--Tom

[ljw]

Tom, I guess it's all a matter of how each individual perceives the people in our country, and how we should interact with others. Especially now, we're so diverse a population that you can't really paint us with the same brush. We may be insensitive or uncompassionate, but I personally don't see it that way. If it's true, maybe it's a product of our tremendous wealth and above average standard of living. If you picked just about any other country in the world, give them our resources, etc., do you honestly think another country would maintain the measured actions that we seem to perpetuate? By default, we are the worlds policemen. I don't like that role, but I believe there would be anarchy if we didn't. We're close to that now. Wasn't it one of the Roosevelts that said "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."?

I guess I'm getting off subject a little but it's just this "entitlement" thing that bugs the heck out of me. I feel that we have caused many people in our country to miss maybe their only chance of clawing and scraping a living out of this environment. Many people feel that a collective "we" should be responsible for making their life enjoyable. I see so many people that sit there like a bump on a log waiting for something to happen. And we pay them to do that. And why do we pay them? Because we feel guilty. But we aren't doing anyone any favors. I'm not picking out any specific group. I'm talking about everybody that thinks that it's the country's, or somebody elses responsibility, or job, to make them happy.

So Tom, I don't think you can take responsibility for someone getting PO'ed even if you wanted to. It was their decision to make and they made it.

After saying all this, may God bless you, Tom. You are in the possession of a truly good heart. I wait with anticipation to read your next literary effort. And that's not tongue-in-cheek. I mean it.

I really like this forum. I think we all have unrequited passions to which this forum allows us an outlet.

As always, if I have inadvertently offended anyone in any way, no offense intended.

Larry