Question: The North American Act for our Canadian Friends

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Churches.....hmmm

My Grandparents were both German Lutheran, and (although Rudi and I still have not agreed precisely what that means) both received their catechisms in German, ca 1912. My Grandfather, at the age of 21, took the job of church sextant in 1916. He also worked for various other people as an odd-jobs man in those days, which, later in life, he turned into a contracting business.

As soon as war broke out, people with "English" names (although most were just as German as he was), decided that it was innapropriate to have someone with the name of "Faust" working in the Church, or working for them. He was promptly dismissed from all of his jobs here. He had not yet married my Grandmother, but was supporting his widowed mother and 2 other siblings in those days.

His younger brother, named Fuhrman (My Great Grandmother was a widow 5 times), also suffered a similar fate, as a borough worker.

German was removed from the schools, and the Churches converted their language to English. For more than 200 years, this valley was a bilingual community, and in the course of a single year, no one remembered anything German.

My Grandfather and his brother, then, both went to the coal fields of Scranton (A 130 mile walk), where they used their mother's maiden name of Brown to get jobs with the coal companies there. They described themselves as "Welsh"....their grandmother's heritage, and were given rail jobs, where they made a good living until the early 20's.

They returned with some savings, got married, and, for the most part, forgave their neighbours, I suppose. Some lingering bitterness must have remained, though, because my Grandfather's name was "Charlie"......and if the song "Charlie Brown" came on the radio, he always made you turn it off..........

They built a new church in 1927, and I'm unsure of the details, since my Grandfather wouldn't talk about it, but they offered him the job of Sextant again, and he took it.

My Grandmother often told us the tale of how she waited for her "Charlie".....In those days, girls were considered useless on the farm, so she was "lent out".....rented out by her parents as a live-in housekeeper to a man who had no wife. She'd often get a strange look in her eye when she spoke of that time, so I know it wasn't pleasant. At 6'1" and 275 lbs, though, I'm sure she held her own, when needed. I saw her go after a bull when she was 70, when my cousin fell down a hay-hole into the bull-pen. She could be quite formidable....

Anyhoo, it was a "they lived happily ever after" story in the end, I suppose.....

So, sometimes, when I hear things like..."If you're going to live here, learn to speak English"....while I understand the sentiment, my hackles raise a little, nonetheless.......

[Little Indy]

If a hero of mine Fiorello LaGuardia had not gone in WWII to then President Roosevelt had made crystal clear the hell the country would pay if what happened to the Japanese happened to Italians (and Germans) d and since he was a prominent Democratic mayor of NY NY, FDR listened. (The Little Flower may have felt bad for the Japanese but it was already done). My family had emmigrated from Calabria in southern Italy to the US before WWI and were and are superpatriates. During WWII they volunteered (almost all) to fight. They were paratropers assigned to southern Italy where the ability to speak the local dialect was a hugh asset. One was a naviagator on a B17 who stated he could put a bomb done a chimney. Some fought the Nazi in the North Atlantic. They were all sons of immigrants who loved this crountry and hated what had happened to the old country they still loved (we all wear shirts and jackets that say Not only am I perfect I am Italian too). The division of Japanese-Americans that fought in WWII in Europe had the highest percentage of medals of any American division in WWII. My point: Once a group of Immigrants have shown their love for this country they should be treated well and they might well be our best asset in fighting those who would do us harm.

Second point: English is my second language, one of the dialects of Calabria is first but many years ago at the age of four my aunts and mother made it clear to me that I was not going to school and disgracing the family. I was then given English lessons when I wanted to go out and play. They did not think speaking Calabrese was a disgrace but this was America and Americans spoke English and we were Americans. IMNSHO immgrants should keep on speaking their own language and should teach it to their children but they should also learn to speak English as well as or better than any native born speaker.

If the world got to gather and made a language the official language for International communication I would sugest Latin (my third) but would learn whatever became the official language of the world

Richard

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

Richard,

That's really interesting. I hadn't known that......

My eldest 2 uncles fought in WWII, but, being of German descent, were both assigned to the Pacific Theatre, much like all Asian-Americans served in the European Theatre.......

But, of course, British intelligence had the German situation well in hand....They were, however, sorely lacking in Italian-speaking soldiers, which probably explains the difference.

Yes, there is a lot to be said for LaGuardia.....

My favourite is the lack of exposed wiring in NYC streets.......and how he handled that one.... but that, too, is another story......

NYC provided an important black market during the war years as well....probably more "illicit" trade of "regulated" substances went on there than official trade.

My grandfather made the run several times, in his '36 Dodge sedan, which could carry quite a payload with the rear seats removed. What the people of this valley needed was sugar, and as anyone who remembers those years can tell you, sugar was in very short supply. He'd take a couple of gas cans (enough fuel for the trip) and new tires and gas-ration stamps to trade for sugar. I guess he traded people other things for tires from time to time. My mom told me people used to come to the house for the sugar late in the evening, when no one would see them.

It wasn't a luxury, the sugar....to people in a farming valley, it was a necessity for canning, baking, etc..... Many families, having no real "money", but quite self-sufficient in other ways, and hence, not exactly poor, would have starved without it. Funny how something like sugar ended up being traded like illegal drugs....

I think LaGuardia knew this, and hence, never cracked down too hard on the black market trading.

[Little Indy]

But, of course, British intelligence had the German situation well in hand....They were, however, sorely lacking in Italian-speaking soldiers, which probably explains the difference.
Yes, there is a lot to be said for LaGuardia.....

I would suggest our leaders (USA) read the Double Cross written by a former member of British Counter Intelligence The Brits brought in civilians at every level including the highest as co-managers. One thought up the double cross system (a pun based on the British flag being of two crosses); the Brits chose as interegators members of their organization that like Germans. The idea was to turn the captured spy. They were very successful at this. In fact the Brits were running the German spy system in Britain. If you don't know learn the lessons of hisotry the sucesses of history go by the wayside
I realize this is very tangential to my orginal question. But on occasion our leaders get it wrong.

Richard

[George Willer]

They may get it wronger after next Tuesday.

[400lbsonacubseatspring]

I would suggest our leaders (USA) read the Double Cross written by a former member of British Counter Intelligence

Richard

In general, our leaders are not a well-read group.........

In counter-chronological order, since the civil war, we have only had seven presidents who showed any signs of reading at all........and, in reality, it didn't seem to necessarily have much of an effect of their administrative decisions.


Carter (EEEEK!)
Eisenhower
FDR
Wilson
Teddy Roosevelt
U. S. Grant
Lincoln

My personal favourite president, of the last century, was Reagan, and I don't think he ever read much outside of presidential papers, and the scripts that he read as an actor (I'm not even sure he read those.......)

Being an intellectual and a president means merely that you will be remembered, it has no real bearing on how fondly.

Of course, Lincoln, Teddy, and FDR were probably overqualified for the job, in reality.........They probably should have been professors or captains of industry, and, if I am not mistaken, Wilson had been a professor at one time.

It is just like this forum....there are many intellectuals here......not that it does one any good whatsoever, and it certainly doesn't make one "correct".....it just means that one has given their opinion, right or wrong, a great deal of thought........sometimes, in fact, the extra cpu-brain power merely allows one to come up with more extravagant delusions.

[Little Indy]

My personal favourite president, of the last century, was Reagan, and I don't think he ever read much outside of presidential papers, and the scripts that he read as an actor (I'm not even sure he read those.......)

But he had the uncanny ability to choose good people and then stay out of their way. If very good people are running the bridge the Captain of a ship can go to sleep.

Richard

[George Willer]

My personal favourite president, of the last century, was Reagan, and I don't think he ever read much outside of presidential papers, and the scripts that he read as an actor (I'm not even sure he read those.......)

But he had the uncanny ability to choose good people and then stay out of their way. If very good people are running the bridge the Captain of a ship can go to sleep.

Richard

Reagan set the agenda according to strongly held values. He used those values when selecting his people. He was my personal favorite as well.

The one place we differed greatly was his granting amnesty to illegal aliens. That was a stupid idea then, just as it's a stupid idea now. I suspect he got the idea from Jimmy Carter.