Generator for UC-60 Power Unit

[Rudi]

Dale:

Then, if this be the case, and I really did think that Jethro would be able to handle this easily....

what would be an ideal head to use as a back-up power supply to take over during power outages in a storm.

I would need to power at least 3 freezers, 1 fridge, lights, a tv and or radio and of course our computers..... our forced air funace (1/4 hp electric motor) and our sump pump Occasionally we have outages that can last 24 to 48 hours depending on how severe the blizzard is...

Knowing that the highest draw is always on startup, and then the draw does settle back to what 20 or 30 percent of initial, woudl an 8 KW head be sufficient to run my basic requirements

[Dale51]

Dale:

Then, if this be the case, and I really did think that Jethro would be able to handle this easily....

what would be an ideal head to use as a back-up power supply to take over during power outages in a storm.

I would need to power at least 3 freezers, 1 fridge, lights, a tv and or radio and of course our computers..... our forced air funace (1/4 hp electric motor) and our sump pump Occasionally we have outages that can last 24 to 48 hours depending on how severe the blizzard is...

Knowing that the highest draw is always on startup, and then the draw does settle back to what 20 or 30 percent of initial, woudl an 8 KW head be sufficient to run my basic requirements

Rudi,
Easy way to fig. is 120volts X the rated amps on what ever frig.,frezzer
or what ever will = watts needed.
Ex. 1/4 hp motor using 120volts & drawing 3 amps needs 360 watts.

[Arizona Mike]

Thank you guys, I really appreciate any and all input on this as it will not be an inexpensive project and I need to get everything right the first time.

I have never understood about horsepower calculations, but horse sense tells me this UC-60 will spin the 5 KW or 7.5 KW head. I think that is everyone's consensus ...am I right ..The unit is governed at 2500 and is running strong

You can see close ups of the bearings, windings and all at the utterpower.com website. I have an email in to Mr. Breckenridge, the site owner/moderator, but I have not received an answer back yet because he has decided to go off grid form awhile

I good friend of mine will be designing the panel and switches for this project, but I would welcome any of your thoughts and ideas. Mr. Breckenridge will have some good ideas about the panel too.

[Rudi]

Mike:

I know I would and maybe others would appreciate drawings/specs on the panel, switches and all so we could figure out our requirements as well.


Credit where credit is due would be a definite.... and be another nice upload to the server...

[beaconlight]

For Emergency power in case of a failure you need to cut yourself off from the grid completely. You don't want to try to supply the world.
You are best if you only feed some circuits and not all. That way you need a smaller alternator.
Rudi talks about three freezers and a fridge. Best if you manually control them so only 1 is running at a time. Yes you can make a citcuit to do that but rudi trembles when he hears the word el;ectricity. Not the best guy to shoot the trouble when Murphys Law operates. Easier to say I had this plug in for an hour and it is no longer running Let me remove the plug and put the 2nd freezer in. Again it keeps the source small and protects it by preventing 2 or 3 motors from starting at the same time and overloading the source and burning something out. It is not running motors causes the trouble it is starting them.
I have a problem with Cow Boys 2 or 3 gal a day. I had a small generator set when we started the house and before we were hooked in to the Edison. We only got 2 or 3 hours on a gal of gas. All we ran was a refrigerator, Skill saw and lights. Well we did run an air compresser for the nail gun. part of the day.
Running an alternator with a cub would be like mowing moderate grass as I see it. How long does a tankful last in a Cub mowing. Generator I expect would be that long. At $3.00 a gallon the goes $15,00 a day. Not bad if the Hi line is out but no good for every day.
Bio diesel was great when no one else was using it. Now with half the world into it you will have to make your own as Cowboy is talking about.
In Billys case his job has him off the winter to moniter his operation. He is in and has farm contacts as well as doing it for him and his brothers will give it a good shot to work as prime power. Billy will have a minumum bill to contend with from the local power Co. In this case he might leave something on the Power co to use the juice he will be paying for. I am not trying to say that it can't be done. It can but you have to all yor ducks in a row for it to work successfully.

Bill

[cowboy]

The generator head Arizona Mike shows looks like the 12,000 kv unit that we have gotten for our gererators. The lister 6.5 hp diesel Carl shows will run 4,700 watts continoulsy with that gen head. you have to overdrive it (gear it up) as the lister runs at 650rpm and the gen head needs 1,800 rpm to produce 60 hz.

So my 5,000watt gas gen has a 11hp briggs. A 6.5 hp lister diesel will make 4,700 watt (on only 2-3 gallons of diesel a day where my current gas gen uses a almost gallon a hour) So I would say if your power unit is in fair condition because of the torque difference you will get plenty of power with it. When you get it setup you need to use a meter that will tell you herz output and set your govener to hold the engine at the rpm where you have 60herz (in the US)

The generator I am putting together is using a 20hp diesel and I making it on a trailer that I can mig welder on so I can use it out in the field. for more details follow the thread http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9497

[beaconlight]

.Yes the governor will keep it at 60 cycle for you but the slowdown before the governor kicks it back up will over time let any old fashioned electric clocks slow down. Not much it is true but over time it adds up. In the Aleutians we ran a little high in RPM to compensate for it. One clock on the power room control wall ran on crystal controlled AC from inverters in the radar. The second one ran on the 60 cycle we generated with the diesels. The radar guys had a clock ran off the diesels too. Theirs was checked to the Navel observatory twice a day I thin it was WWRL. If our clock varried by 1 second from the crystal one we would goose up or slo down to get them in sync. If they got off 5 seconds don't bother going to lunch. You couldn't stand the gafff. If I remember right we ran those big White Superiors at 880 RPM. If we got off 1 second in a day that meant we were off by 60 cycles in that day. Doesn't sound like much when you consider it is 60 times a second and then 60 seconds in a minute and then 60 minutes in an hour and then 24 hours in a day. They busted your back over it. That is 5,184,000 cycles in a day and you were off by 60 . As you can imagine any speed tweeking you did was minor. For home power all that fancy accuracy doesn't matter at all. Just be somewhat close and use battery clocks. Many 60 cycle motors will run and start well on 50 cycle and you won't be off by that much.

[cowboy]

Bill you have so much good info its amazing. I am worried about cycle drop as far as what it will do to the computer and microwave more than the clock. I know the line voltage fluctuats a lot aroud here and have wanted to mesure it throught the day and see how many dropouts/spikes there are during a day now I wonder how constant edisons hz are.

[Bigdog]

Cowboy, Power generated by our nations power generating facilities are probably the most stable frequencies generated anywhere. It is so stable that the horizontal scan frequency of TV's (15750 hz approx) is generated from the 60hz line frequency. Virtually no variation occurs.

[cowboy]

Thanks Big Dog

I am trying to get a feel for how much tolerence I have to play with setting up gen unit. I am not worried about it at full power. But it is going to tack some fiddling to find out how slow I can run the engine and not have dropouts in the econ mode. And I do not know how having the hZ changing may hurt my computer or tv etc.

Billy

[beaconlight]

That little you will be off on cycles won't mean much of anything to your computer. A computer uses a rectifier to get a couple of different DC voltages and all kinds of fancy circuitry to keep it a constant DC voltage. There are capacitors or what we used to call condensors to carry it over the hits and misses on the hi line.
As far as the Micro I have no idea. Yet from the one time I had one apart, to adjust the micro switch on the door latch of my neighbors. I remember seeing a power supply so I guess it can take a beating. It does from brown outs, hits and spikes now from the hi line.
Most of the stories i told of cycles in the Aleutians was just the same as 6 guys on your job jawing who is the best cat skinner.
I was glad to see you plan to use the heat for your homes too. You gain effeciency from that. You are burning fuel and getting heat. Why burn more for the house. Good thinking. The major problem with this is noise. If you can, I would put the shed for the engine a bit away from the house with the exhaust on the far side. I would keep it down wind if possible, yet I would make sure the fumes don't hut the animals in the barn too. I would bury the pipes similar to the way they do out door wood furnaces with insulated pipe. Don't make the building too tight. You don't want combustion air to create a vacume. You don't want it to be an ice box either. I would use a mixing valve so that you regulate the temp of the cooling water you put back in to the diesel so that it is not too cool. That can be just as bad as too hot. Does you engine have a blower? If it does that might raise other questions.
Have fun with it. Be glad you have your brothers in this with you.
I don't know anything at all about the crushing of the grain to get oil. But there a several things even a city slicker can see. You will have some kind of mash left over. You can olny make so much moonshine before the revenoors get wise. Do any of you have chickens or can it be used in a dairy mash? If you feed it and use the manua for fertilizer you are ahead of composting it for fertilizer. Can the mash be dried and used in a pellet stove? I would imagine you get a mixture of oil and water that has to be settled to seperate or centrifuged. Would an old cream seperator do? It is also obvious that it will take at least 1 dirty oil tank (oil and water) before being seperated and at least 1 clean oil tank for after seperation. Then if memory serves a way to transport it because your brothers don't live near you. All these Questions when answered will make your venture more viable
With your brothers you can accomplish this I am sure. In construction and farming you are used to take a big job and break it down into doable tasks that when put together the job is done.

Bill

[cowboy]

Thanks for the ideas Bill

I am planing on making a block shed to back the trailer into with hook ups for water and electric. And having it set back into the bank on the north side of the house buring it four foot on three sides. Running the exhust through two burried 30 gallon drums my freind does this up at his hunting cabin and you can't hear it 60' away.

As far as the mash it is pure protein and can be sold. But I have to find out where. As far as water and seperating it in the prossing to make it bio diesel one of the last thing you do is "wash it" agitate water in it and let it settle out. I just found out that you only get 18% oil from soy the rest is mash. But we are going to try it becuse it is avable and to get started and get everthing figured out. We plan on growing rape seed (canola oil) and we reap 45% oil from the seed.

Billy

[beaconlight]

Great Cowboy. You ever hear the song "momma don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys" " There always alone and never be Home" It is on the tape I play over and over again as I go back and forth 172 miles to the country.

Bill

[cowboy]

Heard it love it live it.

Seems to be true, usuall do what I want when I want and do taking the time I want.

I'm pretty picky and not much for small talk in things i'm not instread in. Don't wach tv rather read a book and listen to the radio. But can talk passionatly about things I care about.

Thanks Bill

Billy