Innocent kids

Anything that might not belong on the other message boards!

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
1. Keep it clean.
2. Keep the discussion civil.
3. Name calling is not allowed.

Politics and religion are two topics that tend to degenerate into a violation of one of the three simple rules above.

The mods and the site admin reserve the right to "lock" or "delete" any discussion that in our opinion, is "heading in the wrong direction."

MOST of all, be respectful of your fellow Cubber's opinions. Don't expect to change someones belief system from a simple forum on the internet.

Innocent kids

Postby Bob Perry » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:56 pm

Image
Just saw the news about the killings in Newtown CT. Once again we deal with a national tragedy, the taking of innocent lives. Once again, we will never make any sense of this. One thing is for sure, these type incidents have increased in the past 10-15 years where we now have several a year. Things are changing. Reasoning used in the past no longer applies. It appears that we have another "copy cat". Disgusting that we lose innocent kids, plus what is the effect on the other kids in that school, and everywhere, kids see this on the news, the affect on them can be very bad, to have to deal with this during their developmental years. As a father, as a grandfather, and as someone who was shot a few years ago by a deranged person who had absolutely no problem acquiring a gun for his planned attack, I hope all the people and organizations that support weapons like this would please re-think their position, because things have changed.
I just heard on the news, "this is no time for a political discussion". I know the kids and families affected are the primary concern, now, but how many more of these incidents do we need?
REMEMBER: Keep it correct or you may face the

Image
User avatar
Bob Perry
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:30 pm
Location: Dartmouth, Massachusetts
Zip Code: 02748
Tractors Owned: :

1949 Farmall Cub / FH

1951 Farmall Cub / IH mower

1964 International Cub Lo-Boy / Woods 59 mower

1967 International Cub / FH

1946 Farmall H

1949 Farmall H

a doodle bug

More than a dozen Cub Cadets running plus a few in the bone-yard

.

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Bus Driver » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:55 pm

Been working outside today, just learned of this. Heartbreaking beyond words. The gunman broke several laws before and during the shooting- so more laws may not help.
I notice that when help is called, the responders are people with guns.
Luck favors those who are prepared
User avatar
Bus Driver
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 2616
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:26 pm
Location: NC

Re: Innocent kids

Postby CapeCodCubs » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:09 pm

Pretty sad day...
Image
CapeCodCubs
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 2575
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:30 pm
Zip Code: 02747
Tractors Owned: .
1948 F Cub Fast hitch
1949 F Cub
!950 F Cub Fast hitch

10 FastHitch implements
tons' of cultivating and planting stuff
Cub Middlebuster, Cub bean harvester
NOS Planet Jr. planter
172 planter, large combo hopper, 101A fertilzer hopper
Mott flail mower

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Joe Malinowski » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:13 pm

Heartbreaking, don't know how to even express how this horrible tragedy makes me fell, but I imagine many people feel the same. Lots of tears and prayers today.
Joe
22 mower 5', grader blade, 189 two way moldboard plow, cultivators ,danco C2 mower,1961 Comet, 1984 BMW 318i

Part of life is falling down, living is getting back up.
User avatar
Joe Malinowski
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 2375
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:03 pm
Location: MA. Hadley
Zip Code: 01035
eBay ID: jayrod01035
Tractors Owned: 1975 F cub, 1965 F cub, 1949 parts cub,1953 F cub 1942 JD LA, 1988 JD 330 diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Rudi » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:49 pm

This morning I was watching CTV and one of the topics was this young prof who was printing gun parts on those new 3D printers. He was saying that everyone should have the right to carry unregistered weapons. What ??

Then a couple hours later I saw the breaking news on CNN around ten-ish or so that there was a shooting. Then about 10 minutes later they had live coverage from a chopper and they said the shooter was down. They were not sure what had happened. Then I was off doing the daily running. Our local radio station broke in with the news that there was people down.

Now, Em and I are sitting here with our hearts breaking as we watch the vigil on CNN. How could this young man do this? It is beyond me.

What is going on? This didn't happen when we were young, at least not like this. It is beyond me. My heart breaks for the mom's and dad's whose kids will never come home again.

May the Lord bless each one of these families, all those who were affected by today and may He draw in these 20 innocents with His loving arms. (+) Em and I shall pray for all the families
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship

User avatar
Rudi
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 28425
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Zip Code: E1A7J3
eBay ID: ve9rhs
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1951 Cub "Jethro"
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Bus Driver » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:40 pm

It appears that his primary target was his Mother, a teacher at the school. For me that makes it all the more impossible to understand.
Luck favors those who are prepared
User avatar
Bus Driver
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 2616
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:26 pm
Location: NC

Re: Innocent kids

Postby lazyuniondriver » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:44 pm

Rudi wrote:This didn't happen when we were young...

Correct.

And a very tragic story, unfortunately, far from the last.

Until the criminal element and the mentally deranged comply with existing laws with 100% compliance, you can continue to legislate more and more laws, enough to fill a book the size of the Cleveland yellow pages, with no effect. Criminals and the insane don't obey laws, as clearly demonstrated today.

Americans will never surrender all their firearms, even if legally ordered to do so, creating a never ending supply to the criminal element and insane.

If someone could flip a switch and every gun in the world could be collected on an electromagnetic, the criminals would switch to knives, golf clubs, and Louisville Sluggers.

Getting back to Rudi's comment... We didn't have the video games available today, won by body count, not points.
Have these games confused people people between reality and fantasy?

Edited to add:

Another problem I contribute to this "copy cat" behavior as Bob mentioned, is the media.

20 plus years ago, a good portion of us would have learned of this tragedy tomorrow morning when we read the paper. A little earlier if we caught the tv news but without much detail as usual.

There would have been a whole section to read in New England, a page in the Midwest, and a column in California. By Monday, business as usual except in the community struck with tragedy, which will never conduct business as usual any longer.

Too many satellite trucks, too many leaked cell pics and vids, too many tweets on Twitter or details on Facebook. Way too much graphic detail released to the whole world before lunch today. Todays' media has enough material to milk this into next week if we will tune in.

How do we stop the media from feeding these copy cats play by play instructions?

Your guess is good as mine.
"HAVE ALL YOUR DELIVERIES MADE BY UNION DRIVERS"
Image
lazyuniondriver
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 am
Location: Southern Suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio
Zip Code: 44134
Tractors Owned: 1949 & 1951 Farmall Cubs

Several Snapper Garden Tractors
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Bob Perry » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:23 pm

When all this story was breaking, I went to a Medical Center with a big-screen tv in a large waiting room. People were walking by with comments like "Oh another shooting, where was this one?"

When Columbine happened a lot of us stared at the screen and could not believe what we saw. Now unfortunately we've become insensetized because there have been so many.

But as said above, this ain't the end of 'em.
REMEMBER: Keep it correct or you may face the

Image
User avatar
Bob Perry
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:30 pm
Location: Dartmouth, Massachusetts
Zip Code: 02748
Tractors Owned: :

1949 Farmall Cub / FH

1951 Farmall Cub / IH mower

1964 International Cub Lo-Boy / Woods 59 mower

1967 International Cub / FH

1946 Farmall H

1949 Farmall H

a doodle bug

More than a dozen Cub Cadets running plus a few in the bone-yard

.

Re: Innocent kids

Postby BigBill » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:06 pm

Another sad day. My thoughts and prayers go out for the kindergarten kids and there families plus the adults who lost there lives trying to save the kids. There's a lot of hero's with this one for sure who hid some of the kids. The solution is to arm someone in the schools, a guard or teacher since there going to get shot at anyway. I'd volenteer to be an armed guard in a heartbeat. I live not far from there and today it hit home.

The parents are going to have a rough christmas for sure.

It seems to me that after the cops were out gunned with the bank robbery in california every cop had an m16 today in 223 or one in 308. There well armed now.

On a sad note the anti's have more fuel for more gun laws. I think we need to arm more citizens and put them in the right places too.

I think that the violent movies and violent video games causes this stuff. People who live on the edge get the game and reality mixed up.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
BigBill
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 5632
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: in northern usa
Zip Code: 00000

Re: Innocent kids

Postby lazyuniondriver » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:35 am

BigBill wrote: The solution is to arm someone in the schools, a guard or teacher....

I'd volunteer to be an armed guard in a heartbeat.

No criminal intentionally looks for a gunfight.

No mentally deranged person wants to draw gunfire before their "task" is complete.

The latter, only after their mission is completed to their satisfaction will a self inflicted gun shot or suicide by cop be welcomed, but not a second before.

Had there been just one armed person in that building, whether a paid guard or a volunteer, the body count would have been predictably less, or better yet, the shooting deterred completely!

Paid guards, a volunteer, a willing teacher, the National Guard? Yes. Lets guard our national treasures... Our children. This isn't 1980 any longer, times have changed and so does necessitating the demand for armed security personnel in every school building in America.

The most dangerous inner city schools patrolled by off duty cops with Glocks are now the safest schools in America. School shootings are becoming like kitchen fires, you know you'll get called out to one eventually, the time and location, anybody's guess. It's time to guard suburban and rural schools like their inner city counterparts.

Remember folks, massacres take seconds to occur, the police take minutes to respond.

In Ohio, we have actually been granted the privilege of legally carrying our concealed handguns onto school property as long as we are in the process dropping off or picking up our children.

Unfortunately this only accounts for armed protection about 10 minutes of the school day, and at a predictable time, but its a start. Unlikely a shooter would choose to open fire during that time period because as previously mentioned, they aren't looking for a gunfight, only unarmed targets.

Once our schools are protected by fortification, these ill members within our ranks of society will have to seek alternate killing grounds.

Upon completion of this monumental task, innocent school children will no longer die in double digit mass murders, and the children fortunate to survive the attacks will avoid mental scarring for the remainder of their long lives.
Attachments
1355553131-picsay.jpg
1355553131-picsay.jpg (47.29 KiB) Viewed 529 times
"HAVE ALL YOUR DELIVERIES MADE BY UNION DRIVERS"
Image
lazyuniondriver
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 am
Location: Southern Suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio
Zip Code: 44134
Tractors Owned: 1949 & 1951 Farmall Cubs

Several Snapper Garden Tractors
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Innocent kids

Postby JackF » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:17 am

Bob Perry wrote:
As a father, as a grandfather, and as someone who was shot a few years ago by a deranged person who had absolutely no problem acquiring a gun for his planned attack, I hope all the people and organizations that support weapons like this would please re-think their position, because things have changed.

Sir: I have my position on gun control and I support your thinking after what you have wrote and the trauma you have gone through.

I know this maybe a little off subject… but I’m disgusted ….

Why supposedly a former sound civil society is slowly turning into a crude-unconstructive – destructive society maybe only God knows. Why is our society filled with so much hate, crime, publicity, carnage, that people would think it is nearly impossible to live a pure life in a society like we have today? Is it because of media, TV, internet, video games all tempts us to do bad things and think bad thoughts? Why was it when I grew up people cared more about raising a family than buying a new car? Why was it when I grew up we didn't have to lean on money for such a support system as we do now? Yes we needed money to survive, but we didn't let it take control of us as we do now. Why is it when a law enforcement officer stops a person that retains a visible assault weapon can’t do anything about it? Why is it that a law enforcement officer is a moving target rather than a respected person enforcing the laws to protect us made by our supposedly sound civil society? Why is it when someone does something wrong they aren’t accountable for their actions...not because the blamed is on something or someone that made them do it..?

It’s very upsetting when you see the President of the United States with tears in his eyes trying to understand what has happened in a supposedly sound civil society.

In my opinion in the United States we take almost everything for granted and we hardly realize what selfish lives we are living. But we rush through life not noticing the little things in life…..

I can only envisage what those parents are going through……
I’m really good at doing nothing…With that said…I’m really, really good at doing nothing
JackF
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:20 am
Zip Code: 00000

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Bigschuss » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:18 am

This horror we are witnessing is the result of a cocktail of problems that sit and brew and fester in our country. Can't just blame guns...but they are part of the problem. Can't just blame the way we treat the mentally ill....but it is part of the problem.

Our children have access to ultra-violent video games...games that depict death, gore, rape....and we, as a country, do nothing to prevent this.

Our children have total access to images of porn and death on the internet and we, as a country, do nothing to prevent this.

Our children sit for hours and hours unsupervised by absentee parents and play these games and watch porn and images of death for fun....

Indeed, citizens who would have been locked up or heavily treated 40 years ago now walk freely amongst us.

An even remotely normal person doesn't even think about doing something like this.....yesterday was "the perfect storm"

I get a sense that most people in their 40's, 50's 60's, and 70's long for an American like to used to be. Indeed our Nation has changed. We are sick. There is a cancer growing on our society that is slowly killing us. Our country is in shambles and things like this happen and our politicians sit back and say "yeah, we got this" and nothing gets done and we grow more divided as a nation.

It will happen again...and it will be even worse the next time.

Sorry for the long rant...I am a high school teacher in Massachusetts. I have a 6 year old and a 3 year old. Like all of you, I am so pissed and so heartbroken right now. I picked my daughter up yesterday getting off the bus and I held her hand and walked home with her and was so full of sadness for the world she is growing up in. So sad for the world she is growing up in....

Blair
My other addiction...www.thunderboltskirun.com/militaria
User avatar
Bigschuss
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 7:08 pm
Location: Savoy, MA
Zip Code: 01256
Tractors Owned: 1958 Cub with Fast Hitch
FH Mott Flail Mower
Cub-144 Cultivators
L-38 Disc Harrows
L-F194 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54 Grader Blade

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Joe Malinowski » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:22 am

As i read comments this morning I realize we all have reason to feel the way we do about guns and gun control. All I feel right now is grief and sadness. As the father and uncle of two young women who work in education, I know how tough thier jobs have become. Since my daughter started her career as a school counselor at a middle school she has told me how wonderful her school resource officers are, yes she has 2 uniformed and armed police officers in her school every day not just to protect the staff and children but to act as positive roll models in the school setting, maybe this should be a national standard? I have no answers at this point just sadness.
I wonder about how things have changed and why, also what needs to be done to head in the right directions. A insane person in China attacked children outside a school with a knife yesterday, is banning knives the answer? Criminals or insane people do not follow laws or rules.
Blair my friend you have just said so much that is so true and right on point Thank you.
Joe
Joe
22 mower 5', grader blade, 189 two way moldboard plow, cultivators ,danco C2 mower,1961 Comet, 1984 BMW 318i

Part of life is falling down, living is getting back up.
User avatar
Joe Malinowski
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 2375
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:03 pm
Location: MA. Hadley
Zip Code: 01035
eBay ID: jayrod01035
Tractors Owned: 1975 F cub, 1965 F cub, 1949 parts cub,1953 F cub 1942 JD LA, 1988 JD 330 diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Innocent kids

Postby Eugene » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:20 am

Joe Malinowski wrote:A insane person in China attacked children outside a school with a knife yesterday, is banning knives the answer?
Missouri has a "Safe School Act" banning knives on school property.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12119
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Innocent kids

Postby DanR » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:23 am

Yesterdays tragedy was the end result of the bigger problem not the beginning of another problem. The forest for the trees. A nuclear accident is the melt down of the core not the insulation around it.
47 Cub (Glenda)
52 Super A
62 Cub (Genie)
43 H
42 M
In all things know which way the wind is blowing.
DanR
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:28 am
Location: Tennessee East
Zip Code: 37743
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Next

Return to Off Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: rjfcsa and 2 guests