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PTO problem?
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:19 pm
- Zip Code: 12871
PTO problem?
Hi All,
using all of the extremely helpful information on this site, I recently replaced the pto and transmission spline shaft in my '52 cub. I got all new parts from TMtractor, including the PTO shaft, bearing and shield, collar, and shift lever. when this didn't fix the problem of the PTO not staying engaged, I split the tractor and replaced the spline shaft, front bearing, front bearing retainer (making sure to install it the right way) all the gaskets etc... the only part that I did not replace was the rear roller bearing for the spline shaft because the one in tractor seemed fine. Today, I hooked up the sickle bar mower and off I went. everything went smoothly but after about 10 or so times engaging/disengaging the PTO with the shift lever, it stopped wanting to engage. I had to use a tremendous amount of force to engage it, but once engaged it ran fine. The pilot bushing came installed in the new spline shaft, and there's no slop between the spline shaft and the PTO shaft. I'm assuming it must be something with the collar???? but it's all brand new parts....... why would it work fine for a while and then all of a sudden not want to engage.
Any ideas??
using all of the extremely helpful information on this site, I recently replaced the pto and transmission spline shaft in my '52 cub. I got all new parts from TMtractor, including the PTO shaft, bearing and shield, collar, and shift lever. when this didn't fix the problem of the PTO not staying engaged, I split the tractor and replaced the spline shaft, front bearing, front bearing retainer (making sure to install it the right way) all the gaskets etc... the only part that I did not replace was the rear roller bearing for the spline shaft because the one in tractor seemed fine. Today, I hooked up the sickle bar mower and off I went. everything went smoothly but after about 10 or so times engaging/disengaging the PTO with the shift lever, it stopped wanting to engage. I had to use a tremendous amount of force to engage it, but once engaged it ran fine. The pilot bushing came installed in the new spline shaft, and there's no slop between the spline shaft and the PTO shaft. I'm assuming it must be something with the collar???? but it's all brand new parts....... why would it work fine for a while and then all of a sudden not want to engage.
Any ideas??
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- Cub Pro
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- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:35 pm
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- eBay ID: dmb2613
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: VA. Randolph
Re: PTO problem?
May just be that it is new and needs to be used to go in smoothly, The only other thing I can think of is the set screw on the collar, it could be too tight.
Boss
Boss
IN GOD WE TRUST
All others pay cash
Boss Hog
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely byJohn Emerich Edward Dalberg
All others pay cash
Boss Hog
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely byJohn Emerich Edward Dalberg
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:19 pm
- Zip Code: 12871
Re: PTO problem?
Thanks Boss,
I did think to check the set screw, and it's fine, I put locktite on it too when I installed it, so it shouldn't be going anywhere. I did consider that maybe it just needs to be used a little, but boy oh boy it took all of my might to engage it the last few times.....made me worry a little.
I did think to check the set screw, and it's fine, I put locktite on it too when I installed it, so it shouldn't be going anywhere. I did consider that maybe it just needs to be used a little, but boy oh boy it took all of my might to engage it the last few times.....made me worry a little.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2929
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Location: MO, Potosi
Re: PTO problem?
Sounds exactly what I experienced today with my sickle mower installed and used for the first time this year. PTO parts and shafts were all replaced a few years ago. Got the NEW belt on and adjusted tension. (It's NEW because when I took the sickle off last fall I put the OLD one some place safe, hopefully one day I'll find where that place is ) Anyway when I fired up after greasing and oiling everything and tried to engage the PTO it would go about half way and stop and I couldn't get it to go any farther. I backed off the tension on the belt and then got the PTO engaged. Didn't take it apart yet but I'm expecting that the bronze bushing in the end of the transmission shaft has wore through and pulling down on the pulley with the belt tesion lifts the inside end of the shaft enough to keep the collar from sliding onto the transmission shaft. Other option is that the small diameter end on the PTO shaft that goes into the transmission shaft is worn even smaller allowing the PTO shaft to raise up on that end and the collar not align. I like option one better.yankeeleeroy wrote:............. Today, I hooked up the sickle bar mower and off I went. everything went smoothly but after about 10 or so times engaging/disengaging the PTO with the shift lever, it stopped wanting to engage. I had to use a tremendous amount of force to engage it, but once engaged it ran fine. The pilot bushing came installed in the new spline shaft, and there's no slop between the spline shaft and the PTO shaft. I'm assuming it must be something with the collar???? but it's all brand new parts....... why would it work fine for a while and then all of a sudden not want to engage.
Any ideas??
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
- Zip Code: 13143
- Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: PTO problem?
A 2 cent reply....At times I have to ease the clutch out slowly, till about the 1/2 way point or so, then the PTO will engage with no grinding or problem....Are you trying that when you say it goes in hard or just relying on the lever and mechanical force...Dave
In Memory of 58,286
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:19 pm
- Zip Code: 12871
Re: PTO problem?
Thanks for the info Scrivet, the belt on the pully is pretty tight, maybe i should loosten it up. Pickerandsinger - i tried the old clutch trick, but that didn't work either, no matter what i have to push as hard as i can to engage the collar.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2929
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Location: MO, Potosi
Re: PTO problem?
Good reminder, but as I understand yankeeleeroy's problem and definitely the one I had yesterday is a little beyond the normal two shafts not at the same "clock position" so the collar can slide forward onto the transmission shaft. With mine, engine off and manually working the PTO pulley and engagement lever still coldn't get it to engage. The lever would go about halfway and no farther. You could feel something hitting something else. The only thing I know of it could be was the PTO shaft and the end of the transmission shaft not being horizontally aligned (end to end). Only when I loosened up the sickle mower belt which would in theory drop the forward end of the PTO shaft would it engage. The only thing I don't understand is yankeeleeroy's is a fairly recent replacement for it to have wore out that quick.pickerandsinger wrote:A 2 cent reply....At times I have to ease the clutch out slowly, till about the 1/2 way point or so, then the PTO will engage with no grinding or problem....Are you trying that when you say it goes in hard or just relying on the lever and mechanical force...Dave
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
- Zip Code: 13143
- Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: PTO problem?
Well Leroy, you got some good members interested....I'm sure Boss and Scrivet will be pondering this till it gets resolved....If I can think of anything I'll drop a line...
In Memory of 58,286
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:19 pm
- Zip Code: 12871
Re: PTO problem?
Scrivet, I think you are describing the exact problem i have.... i tried the engine off, manual turning the PTO while pulling on the engagement lever to get the the splines to line up, and i STILL Had to give it all my might. The collar goes about half way (right up until the splines on the spline shaft and the splines in the collar meet) and won't go any further, even though they are alligned.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:19 pm
- Zip Code: 12871
Re: PTO problem?
You nailed it Scrivet, today I adjusted the belt tension, and now the PTO engages and disengages as smooth as could be. Thanks for all the help everybody!
-
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 10290
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:35 pm
- Zip Code: 23962
- eBay ID: dmb2613
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: VA. Randolph
Re: PTO problem?
OK bad bearing, bad shaft or bushing.
IN GOD WE TRUST
All others pay cash
Boss Hog
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely byJohn Emerich Edward Dalberg
All others pay cash
Boss Hog
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely byJohn Emerich Edward Dalberg
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
- Zip Code: 13143
- Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: PTO problem?
Scrivet, I'll put that one in my memory bank......Or whats left of it...
In Memory of 58,286
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2929
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Location: MO, Potosi
Re: PTO problem?
I haven't tore into mine yet, waiting on bushing. You're welcome to fix itpickerandsinger wrote:Scrivet, I'll put that one in my memory bank......Or whats left of it...
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4949
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
- Zip Code: 14559
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Rochester, NY
Re: PTO problem?
yankeeleeroy wrote:You nailed it Scrivet, today I adjusted the belt tension, and now the PTO engages and disengages as smooth as could be. Thanks for all the help everybody!
You've still got a problem.
As Boss Hog suggests, something is wore allowing the PTO shaft to "tilt" when there is too much tension on the belt.
That's either the pilot on the front end of the PTO shaft, or the bushing in the back end of the transmission shaft.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
- Zip Code: 13143
- Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: PTO problem?
I was kinda thinkin pilot bushing myself but figured I'd leave it to the big guns...Did you replace it when you did the pto...I've heard of them falling out during the process.... Scrivet, I've done a couple of PTO rebuilds but no internal transmission work...So if its a PTO bushing you can send it to me and I'll hands on it.....If I could only remember my address......lol...Dave
In Memory of 58,286
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